Det/Oak Gm 2

[Sal Giaco]

Originally Posted by Tim C

"Respect or Red A$$? "

I guess I just don't get some things you post.

The balk was called . . . I have never seen any MLB umpire let a bench guy argue a balk . . . of course you are actually closer to those guys then I am . . . but:

Hunter said: "that's it" and Jim, a true classic baseball guy, got the picture.

If I am missing the point of your post I apologize . . . I don't care what the call was oreinted towards . . . I thought the umpire and manager handled it EXACTLY as I would expect at their level.

You identify why the balk was called and don't "explain" anything.

A balk call is exactly the same as a ball/strike call . . . 100% judgement.

Regards,

I think Chris Hickman exactly understood my post. It's not the call, it's the way he handled the situation after the call. Wendlestedt acted like Leyland was coming out to argue balls & strikes. Unless the balk is obvious, managers/head coaches will generally come out to get an explanation.... if for nothing else, just to give his pitcher time to get himself back together.
Since Leyland already made his way out of the dugout, I was a little surprised at how aggressive Wendlestedt handled the situation (by not letting him to come out). Just an observation and opinion

[David B]

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

I think Chris Hickman exactly understood my post. It's not the call, it's the way he handled the situation after the call. Wendlestedt acted like Leyland was coming out to argue balls & strikes. Unless the balk is obvious, managers/head coaches will generally come out to get an explanation.... if for nothing else, just to give his pitcher time to get himself back together.
Since Leyland already made his way out of the dugout, I was a little surprised at how aggressive Wendlestedt handled the situation (by not letting him to come out). Just an observation and opinion

Obviously Leyland understood and got all the info he needed. There is no need for a coach to argue or talk about a balk. I've always told F1 what he did and moved on.

A coach might ask what he did, but I'm not going to allow them to discuss it, there's nothing to discuss.

That's the way I"ve always handled it in my games college and HS. I'm sure there's even less to talk about at the MLB level.

Thanks
David

[Lawrence.Dorsey]

I didn't suprise me that Hunter cut him off. Several years ago, I went to a Rockies game in Denver. Hunter was the PU. He pulled the old "let's talk about the lineup card" gag with Clint Hurdle during the half inning (Hunter approached Clint instead of the other way around). Clint didn't play along has he threw up his arms and said a couple of words. I could tell Hunter was probably telling him to shut up about something (lineup card routine) but I really didn't know what it was. Anyway, Hurdle shut up, stayed in the game and things went on...


Lawrence

[mbyron]

I noticed that Wendlestedt still uses the scissors stance (at least, I think that's what I saw). Old habits die hard, I guess.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I noticed that Wendlestedt still uses the scissors stance (at least, I think that's what I saw). Old habits die hard, I guess.

It's a pretty relaxed scissors that keeps his head considerably higher than most guys who work the scissors. It's almost more of an EXTREME heel-toe stance (with a foot or so between the heel and the toe).

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I noticed that Wendlestedt still uses the scissors stance (at least, I think that's what I saw). Old habits die hard, I guess.

You say this as if there is something wrong with the stance. I thought he looked pretty sharp in it. I used the same exact "more relaxed scissors" type stance from around '93 to '04, and really liked it alot. If I go back to doing HS Varsity again next year, I think I will re-visit that stance.

It puts much less strain on the back, legs, and neck area than does the traditional, more upright scissors.

I've heard this stance referred to as "the Tank" before by some pro school grads. I never thought that sounded so good, so I never adopted that description.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

You say this as if there is something wrong with the stance.

Isn't there? As I understand it, MiLB has banned it, "relaxed" or otherwise. Do you suppose that was whimsy on their part? Arbitrary exercise of authority?

As for Wendelstedt's stance being "relaxed," I noticed that as well. For my part, a primary goal of a plate stance is to get my head in position to call the pitch. If the "relaxed" scissors raises my head (to eliminate neck strain), then it risks taking me out of position. Although I might be able to achieve some equilibrium point where my neck is not too strained and I'm not too out of position, this stance does not work for me.

Others, naturally, will do as they see fit.

[mattmets]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Isn't there? As I understand it, MiLB has banned it, "relaxed" or otherwise. Do you suppose that was whimsy on their part? Arbitrary exercise of authority?

IIRC, it was because their insurance company was pissed there were so many back/neck injuries because of it. Although I would think later on they will have quite a few knee claims from the box.

[Sal Giaco]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

....I've heard this stance referred to as "the Tank" before by some pro school grads.

I think you mean the "taint" - It taint the box and it taint the scissors. It's some variation (sp) of the two mixed together.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

I think you mean the "taint" - It taint the box and it taint the scissors. It's some variation (sp) of the two mixed together.

Yeah, I thought that might have been what they were saying, but I wasn't sure. I can't get my body into a traditional scissors because my back won't do that reverse "C" thing like the early Johnny Miller. This is my version:

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

I think you mean the "taint" - It taint the box and it taint the scissors. It's some variation (sp) of the two mixed together.

heh heh heh heh...He said "taint."

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

The way Hunter was hiding behind the catcher they should call it "The Wuss".

I've seen a lot of MLB umpires hiding behind the catcher lately, in any kind of stance (except Wally Bell's kneeling). The catcher moves for an outside pitch, there they go moving out there with him and hiding.

If I was getting the money they are, I'd be proudly set up in the slot, totally exposed and willing to take the shot. Besides, they are sitting behind professional catchers. These guys don't let the ball hit the umpire very often. Man, I'd be in the scissors and never flinch once if I had that luxury.

[Sal Giaco]

Originally Posted by Tim C

I see many more MLB umpires NOT ALLOW a conversation other than a quick "what did he do?" (exactly like what happened in the situation).

Regards,

I'm not sure it would have been a long term discussion (probably just a clarification) but never the less, if this is how balks are handled at the MLB level, I hope this mentality filters it's way down to the NCAA ranks. Personally, I agree that balks are pretty cut & dry (ie, no stop, no step, started and stopped, etc) and for the most part, shouldn't require a visit for explanation. Unfortuneately, the head coaches at the NCAA level don't necessarily see it that way.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

I'm not sure it would have been a long term discussion (probably just a clarification) but never the less, if this is how balks are handled at the MLB level, I hope this mentality filters it's way down to the NCAA ranks. Personally, I agree that balks are pretty cut & dry (ie, no stop, no step, started and stopped, etc) and for the most part, shouldn't require a visit for explanation. Unfortuneately, the head coaches at the NCAA level don't necessarily see it that way.

At the NCAA level, I have called a balk for whatever reason, and the head coaches almost always come out on me for clarification. I will let them come and ask "What did he do?" Once that question is answered, that's pretty much the end of the conversation. Some times they'll try to prolong it, but it's my job as an umpire to get the game moving again, so that's what I do.

BTW- I've never told an NCAA coach, "Don't come out here." But I have said that to coaches and managers at lower levels.