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-   -   Det/Oak Gm 2 (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/28803-det-oak-gm-2-a.html)

Sal Giaco Wed Oct 11, 2006 09:01pm
Det/Oak Gm 2
 
Anybody see the balk Wendlestedt called in the first inning? I guess Leyland wasn't allowed to talk to him about it because just as he started out on Hunter, he pointed toward his knee & then waved his mask in a motion like "don't come out here". Leyland stopped in his tracks, turned around and walked back in the dugout. Respect or Red A$$? :confused:

jwwashburn Wed Oct 11, 2006 09:17pm
Of course, the Fox experts confused it even further for me.

The replay showed a flinch, then a pickoff throw THEN the balk call. Steve Lyons said that the flinch was the balk. But Harry was pointing at the knee.

That being said, Leyland was not screaming and hollering. Why not explain your call to him?

Go Tigers!

Joe

ggk Wed Oct 11, 2006 09:34pm
i missed the play. was the flinch the balk? where did he flinch? was the balk call delayed?
thanks

Dave Hensley Wed Oct 11, 2006 09:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Giaco
Anybody see the balk Wendlestedt called in the first inning? I guess Leyland wasn't allowed to talk to him about it because just as he started out on Hunter, he pointed toward his knee & then waved his mask in a motion like "don't come out here". Leyland stopped in his tracks, turned around and walked back in the dugout. Respect or Red A$$? :confused:
Assuming the balk call was a "step balk," i.e., a balk for failure to step to 1B before throwing there, Wendelstadt's call was textbook, straight out of the MLB Umpire Manual:

(d) Official Baseball Rule 8.05(c) requires the pitcher, while touching the pitcher's plate, to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base. If a pitcher turns or spins off of his free foot without actually stepping, or if he turns his body and throws before stepping, it is a balk. See Section 7.6 (Stepping to a Base). NOTE: The pitcher is required to step directly toward a base when feinting a throw to a base. Umpires should indicate balks called under Official Baseball Rule 8.05(c) (no step) by slapping the side of their leg after calling the balk. This indicates the balk is for failure to step directly towards a base.

(e) A manager, coach, or player may not come onto the field or leave his position to protest the call of a balk as defined in Official Baseball Rule 8.05(c) (failure to step directly towards a base before throwing there). If such protest is made, the manager, coach, or player shall be ejected from the game.

Wendelstadt slapped his leg to indicate the balk, and clearly told Leyland "don't come out here" and Leyland did a 180 and went straight back to the dugout.

Textbook.

bossman72 Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:01pm
wait.... a balk was called in MLB baseball?????


...no wonder it's news

mattmets Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman72
wait.... a balk was called in MLB baseball by someone other than Bob Davidson?????


...no wonder it's news
Is that what you meant? :p

DG Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:11pm
It looked like a spin/no step pick to me, and I was 2828 miles away so did not see knee flinch.

Sal Giaco Thu Oct 12, 2006 07:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim C
"Respect or Red A$$? "

I guess I just don't get some things you post.

The balk was called . . . I have never seen any MLB umpire let a bench guy argue a balk . . . of course you are actually closer to those guys then I am . . . but:

Hunter said: "that's it" and Jim, a true classic baseball guy, got the picture.

If I am missing the point of your post I apologize . . . I don't care what the call was oreinted towards . . . I thought the umpire and manager handled it EXACTLY as I would expect at their level.

You identify why the balk was called and don't "explain" anything.

A balk call is exactly the same as a ball/strike call . . . 100% judgement.

Regards,
I think Chris Hickman exactly understood my post. It's not the call, it's the way he handled the situation after the call. Wendlestedt acted like Leyland was coming out to argue balls & strikes. Unless the balk is obvious, managers/head coaches will generally come out to get an explanation.... if for nothing else, just to give his pitcher time to get himself back together.
Since Leyland already made his way out of the dugout, I was a little surprised at how aggressive Wendlestedt handled the situation (by not letting him to come out). Just an observation and opinion

Sal Giaco Thu Oct 12, 2006 08:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim C
I see many more MLB umpires NOT ALLOW a conversation other than a quick "what did he do?" (exactly like what happened in the situation).

Regards,
I'm not sure it would have been a long term discussion (probably just a clarification) but never the less, if this is how balks are handled at the MLB level, I hope this mentality filters it's way down to the NCAA ranks. Personally, I agree that balks are pretty cut & dry (ie, no stop, no step, started and stopped, etc) and for the most part, shouldn't require a visit for explanation. Unfortuneately, the head coaches at the NCAA level don't necessarily see it that way.

ctblu40 Thu Oct 12, 2006 08:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Giaco
I'm not sure it would have been a long term discussion (probably just a clarification) but never the less, if this is how balks are handled at the MLB level, I hope this mentality filters it's way down to the NCAA ranks. Personally, I agree that balks are pretty cut & dry (ie, no stop, no step, started and stopped, etc) and for the most part, shouldn't require a visit for explanation. Unfortuneately, the head coaches at the NCAA level don't necessarily see it that way.
At the NCAA level, I have called a balk for whatever reason, and the head coaches almost always come out on me for clarification. I will let them come and ask "What did he do?" Once that question is answered, that's pretty much the end of the conversation. Some times they'll try to prolong it, but it's my job as an umpire to get the game moving again, so that's what I do.

BTW- I've never told an NCAA coach, "Don't come out here." But I have said that to coaches and managers at lower levels.

David B Thu Oct 12, 2006 08:42am
MLB is different
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Giaco
I think Chris Hickman exactly understood my post. It's not the call, it's the way he handled the situation after the call. Wendlestedt acted like Leyland was coming out to argue balls & strikes. Unless the balk is obvious, managers/head coaches will generally come out to get an explanation.... if for nothing else, just to give his pitcher time to get himself back together.
Since Leyland already made his way out of the dugout, I was a little surprised at how aggressive Wendlestedt handled the situation (by not letting him to come out). Just an observation and opinion

Obviously Leyland understood and got all the info he needed. There is no need for a coach to argue or talk about a balk. I've always told F1 what he did and moved on.

A coach might ask what he did, but I'm not going to allow them to discuss it, there's nothing to discuss.

That's the way I"ve always handled it in my games college and HS. I'm sure there's even less to talk about at the MLB level.

Thanks
David

bluezebra Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL
I was listening to it on the radio. They said he bent his knee ever so slightly before throwing to first. They didn't elaborate on which knee.

BTW-Jon Miller and Joe Morgan were the announcers.
Enough said.

Bob

LMan Thu Oct 12, 2006 02:54pm
OTOH, I am enjoying the commentary of Piniella and Brennerman (sp?). Lou will/would make a good 'color' guy once his managing days are done.

mattmets Thu Oct 12, 2006 02:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMan
OTOH, I am enjoying the commentary of Piniella and Brennerman (sp?). Lou will/would make a good 'color' guy once his managing days are done.
Brennaman is almost as painful to listen to as McCarver. I will agree that Piniella actually does bring some very good insights to the broadcast, which is enlightening.

Lawrence.Dorsey Thu Oct 12, 2006 03:44pm
I didn't suprise me that Hunter cut him off. Several years ago, I went to a Rockies game in Denver. Hunter was the PU. He pulled the old "let's talk about the lineup card" gag with Clint Hurdle during the half inning (Hunter approached Clint instead of the other way around). Clint didn't play along has he threw up his arms and said a couple of words. I could tell Hunter was probably telling him to shut up about something (lineup card routine) but I really didn't know what it was. Anyway, Hurdle shut up, stayed in the game and things went on...


Lawrence


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