What do YOU think?

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Oh, that's a different question. But the answer is the same.

Garth,

Hmmm... I'll have to think about that a little.

Now, I would agree that the quote you posted from page 3 seems pretty straightforward - at least until you get to page 5 and find the following:

The following rules and regulations apply to all house leagues, both baseball and softball. Official Baseball rules published by the National Baseball Congress and Softball rules published by the Amateur Softball Association will
be applicable, except where there is a specific exception listed in these regulations.

Is your answer still the same, or different?

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

Well, since it seems that it's okay to violate the rules of this thread, and not just give a simple answer with no rationale provided, I will weigh in.

My answer of OBR is due to many Little League rules incorporated in as well as the bracketing being exactly the same as PONY baseball (which I thought was patented to start with).

Both of these organizations' rules are based on OBR, so even though it is stated on page 3 that the rules are based on NFHS rules, I believe the opposite is really the case. I was hard pressed to find anything remotely similar to high school rules within the playing rules.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Pete,

I would certainly not dispute your assertion. However, my question was a little different. Namely, based on your read, which rule code do these "house" rules say you use for the things that are NOT changed by the local rules?

JM

As your question now asks which code does the house set say to use, I'd have to answer: both, however, the reference to OBR on page five is stronger than the reference to FED on page 3.

As for the local rules, attempting to link them to one code or another is fruitless. Just because they may have a similarity to
PONY's or any other league's add-ons doesn't mean a thing. Add-ons are not automatically tied to one code or another.

The whole situation is close to a FUBAR. A total re-write is called for. I assume you have volunteered for the job.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by GarthB

The whole situation is close to a FUBAR. A total re-write is called for. I assume you have volunteered for the job.

I would submit, and believe I could support a case that, ALL local rules are FUBAR. I've yet to see one that was both A) necessary and B) consistent and complete.

The lone exception is time-limits, which I hate, but can see the need for in certain cases.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I love the part that describes what kind of blue jeans the umpire can wear. Yeah, that's a real good look.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

For a league that messed up, my interp fit best.

[David B]

FED Rules

Thanks
David

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

According to the quotes we've seen, anything related to baseball and listed after page 5 is covered by the NBC. Prior to that, the rules are Fed related.
(Sorry, but that was too easy.)

Anyone else wonder why house leagues typically recruit the lowest common denominator umpire in many parts? (Hey, he has a patch and a heartbeat! Are you available?)

Good luck with that league coach - I'd love to see the technical committee at work.

[UmpJM]

My thanks to all who have replied. After Garth's "that's a different question..." reply, I realized that I had not worded my initial question very well.

What I meant to ask was, based on what the linked rules say should the OBR rules or the FED rules be used to adjudicate all the things which are not covered in the linked "House Rules".

As you now know, it says two different things in two different places. (Similarly, for the house softball leagues, in one place it specifies ASA & in another NFHS.) I am of the opinion that the specification of OBR "trumps" the specification of NFHS because immediately following the specification of NFHS as what I referred to as the "foundation rules", the rules also include the statement:

The DYBA General Rules supercede specific instances of the NFHS rules and should be followed preferentially.

The "DYBA General Rules" is the section that specifies OBR as the "foundation rules". So, I believe that a "literalist" reading of the rules say that OBR takes precedence over FED in the adjudication of the league's games. I also am quite confident that the league's INTENT is that the FED rules be used as the basic playing rules.

While I too have a deep-seated aversion to "local rules", I have come to the conclusion that they are an inevitable annoyance. If they are going to exist, I believe they should be as few as possible and as "good" as possible.

While I have no intention of volunteering to rewrite these rules, I am planning to send a few observations regarding them to the individual who is in charge of these rules.

From a pragmatic point of view, I can only remember two occasions in four years of coaching in this league where a FED/OBR rule difference would have had an impact on the proper ruling in a game situation, so it's not that big a deal.

I was curious to see how the umpires on the forum would read the rules in responding to my question.

I genuinely appreciate those of you who took the time to respond. Thanks.

John

[Mike Ricketts]

While the dual references don't make much sense, having to choose one over the other, I read the OBR reference as governing.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

I am asking you to read through the linked document and post your reply SOLELY as "OBR" or "FED". Please do NOT provide any rationale for your answer.

JM

FED

[BigUmp56]

I think I liked this one the best.

There shall be no arguments over any umpire decision. Rule interpretation questions may be discussed with the umpire between innings provided both managers agree to talk to the umpire. In the event that both managers do not agree, the matter shall not be discussed with the umpire. Regardless of the discussion, the original call shall stand.


So, if there's been a misapplication of a rule they have to wait until the half inning to discuss the call with the umpire. This makes it impossible to reverse a manifestly incorrect call. What's the use of discussing a rules misapplication if it can't help your team?


Tim.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

So, if there's been a misapplication of a rule they have to wait until the half inning to discuss the call with the umpire. This makes it impossible to reverse a manifestly incorrect call. What's the use of discussing a rules misapplication if it can't help your team?

Tim.

DO-OVER!!!

[ctblu40]

Having read these rules, 1 thing is certain... I would never work a game in this league. The rules are just too vague in my opinion.

One that caught my eye was that a manager can't discuss the misapplication of a rule until the inning is over. Although I appreciate the attempt to control the behavior of coaches and the like, what happens if say with R3 only, batter is HBP and R3 is permitted to advance and score the winning run while F2 is chasing the ball to the backstop? The rules don't allow the coach to question this? That's a disservice to the game IMO.


Edited to add:

Tim beat me to it!

[ozzy6900]

Okay, I've read the so called rules and read the posts and have reached a conclusion. Leagues that try to re-write the rule book or combine rule books should be banned for sheer stupidity!