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I disagree,but then again i'm a red sox fan so.....To me when the ball came out,and he next re-tagged Manny then Manny should have been safe.The ball never hit the ground so they said it could still be considered an out.
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Well,
Since we know that "voluntary release" is only in affect while a ball is "in flight" the only determining factor of this play is umpire judgement that the ball was secure when the tag was made.
Kulpa obviously thought that the ball was secure. Pretty simple too me. Regards, Last edited by Tim C; Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 03:20pm. |
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As Always:
""Voluntary release" is involved when tagging a base, not a runner. Such as on the pivot at 2B on a DP attempt. Or on a throw to 1B."
I disagree of course: "Voluntary release"is ONLY considered on a BATTED BALL that is "in flight" . . . we kill this over-and-over everytime it comes up. We even had documentation one time from Steve Mattingly who siad: "I know the rule is clear but in a professional game it would be real hard to sell an out with the ball lying on the ground." This answer was covering this play: Ground ball to F3 who cleanly fields the ball and tosses to F1 covering first base. F1 catches the ball three steps from the first base bag . . . clearly is in secure control and beats the B/R to first base by a step . . . B/R and F1 then collide and the ball winds up on the ground. By rule, the B/R is out . . . in a professional game an ejection would follow if called that way. Regards, |
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It was Bruce's crew on that Crede play.
Using your logic, then, a player must always use his non-glove hand to remove the ball, because if he simply brings up his mitt to show the umpire he caught it and the ball pops out, it's a no catch. Sorry, but if I judge the fielder had secure possession "long enough" to establish a catch and brings his mitt up to show me the ball, I'm ruling a catch. |
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Quote:
__________________
"Booze, broads, and bullsh!t. If you got all that, what else do you need?"." - Harry Caray - |
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Quote:
It's similar to the rule-of-thumb on the transfer at second as part of a DP -- if the ball goes straight down, it was never a catch (R1 is safe at second); if the ball goes up and out, it was a catch (R1 is out) and a drop on the transfer. |
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Ok... so back to the Mariner / Boston play...
IMO, Beltre had secure possession of the ball and then went and tagged Manny - either on the shoulder or the helmet. This contact with Manny, which imo caused the ball to "pop" out of his glove and thus lead to the juggling of the ball by Beltre before he finally secured it. So even as a Mariner fan (I don't believe I just admitted that ![]() The Mariner TV announcers seemed surprised at the call to... They even mentioned that because Manny didn't slide it helped the umpire call him out. |
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