CWS v. Boston

[LMan]

Watched this game...and noted that the PU (Charlie Relaford, IIRC) bellowed the location of balls every time ("ball, outside!!" "ball, inside!" etc)...this is the first time I've heard a MLB ump do this. Is it rare?

I thought the consensus was NOT to announce location. Thoughts?

[robtheump]

I have heard of couple of guys doing that over the years, you really seem to hear it a lot on Sunday Night Baseball for some reason.

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by LMan
I thought the consensus was NOT to announce location. Thoughts?

The consensus is for umpires-in-training to avoid announcing locations. It can get an inexperienced umpire in trouble, and it can mess with the consistent timing a young umpire is trying to develop.

When you make it to the show, however, you can pretty much do whatever the hell you want to do.

[Atl Blue]

When you make it to the show, however, you can pretty much do whatever the hell you want to do.

Which is what Charlie Reiliford, Joe "Illegal Pitch" West, Bill "It’s my opinion that he should have to stop, just like he has to with runners on base" Miller and others are doing. This is what led to the last blow-up between MLB and the umps, and it will come again. And this time, the umps won't have Rich Garcia to "protect" them.

[Sal Giaco]

Atl Blue,
As someone posted earlier - it's not something you teach young umpires and calling the location of the pitch is not something you do all the time.

I've been doing it on borderline outside or inside pitches for the last couple of years and haven't had any problems with it. Sometimes, I'll just turn my head and say ball while looking the outside pitch away.

At the college level, it sometimes stops the coaches from asking "where's that pitch". In Independent Ball, they pretty much know when you turn your head that the pitch was out or in ... I guess they have more of a "clue" (that's not a knock against college coaches - just different experience levels from managers in pro ball).

[Atl Blue]

it's not something you teach young umpires

That's for sure! Any clinic or school I have ever attended, and the ones I have taught, we emphatically teach umpires NOT to call the location of pitches.

It usually leads to more b!tching and moaning, and second guessing. If you haven't had a problem with it yet, you've been lucky. If you just call "Ball", there is not much they can argue about.

I have not had any college coaches saying, "Where was that one Blue?". They are smarter than that. I don't even here that out of most HS coaches. I do sometimes hear it from Men's Leagues, but those guys have no clue most of the time anyway.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally posted by Atl Blue
When you make it to the show, however, you can pretty much do whatever the hell you want to do.

Which is what Charlie Reiliford, Joe "Illegal Pitch" West, Bill "It’s my opinion that he should have to stop, just like he has to with runners on base" Miller and others are doing. This is what led to the last blow-up between MLB and the umps, and it will come again. And this time, the umps won't have Rich Garcia to "protect" them.

(1) I think you mean Richie Phillips, not Rich Garcia, and (2) he didn't really protect his umpires all that well, in hindsight.

[Atl Blue]

1. You are correct, Richie Phillips, not Garcia. Thank you for the correction.

2. Phillips did an excellent job of protecting the umpires for many years, then gave them REALLY bad advice, thinking that he and the union were invincible.

He and many umpires learned a costly lesson. Unfortunately, MLB let some of the umps that resigned back in, under threat of court action.

Joe West and Bruce Froemming are two that resigned that were later reinstated, among others.

[Tim C]

"Joe West and Bruce Froemming are two that resigned that were later reinstated, among others."

I think you better check that piece of information also.

You missed two calls in this thread already.

Tee

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Atl Blue
Joe West and Bruce Froemming are two that resigned that were later reinstated, among others.

Zen question. Are you half right or half wrong?

[Been Dare]

It's kinda like someone who's not fast, but they're not slow, either.
They're half-fast..............

[Atl Blue]

Nope,
"Joe West and Bruce Froemming are two that resigned that were later reinstated, among others."

I think you better check that piece of information also.

You missed two calls in this thread already.

Tee

On July 14, 1999, 23 of the 32 AL umpires, and 33 of the 36 NL umpires tendered their resignations. Bruce Froemming was a union board member. Both he and Joe West were on the list of umpires that resigned. Their resignations were to be effective September 2, 1999.

On July 27, 1999, these same umpires filed a suit in federal court in Philadelphia to be allowed to rescind their resignations. A settlement was reached in arbitration, led by US District Court Judge J. Curtis Joyner. 22 of the umpires' resignations were accepted; the others were allowed to return. Ironically, Joe West was one of the umpires that was NOT going to be allowed to return. Further court actions and settlements led to some of these 22 umpires being allowed to return as well.

There is still court action going on regarding back pay that was not paid to these umpires. (Cites available if needed)

Now, I have admitted to incorrectly stating the name of the union attorney as Richie Garcia when in fact it was Richie Phillips, as Dave as pointed out. Other than spelling, where was the other blown call in this thread?

http://www.fmew.com/archive/umpire/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas..._wednesday_ap/

Homerun!!!!! Rob

Now back to the original thread. I have found that "tracking the ball" has eliminated the need to tell where the pitch is. If you turn your head down and to the left on a right handed bat, then it was low and outside. I very seldom get asked "where was that one ump", since I started tracking the ball.

Greg B

[wobster]

Tracking the ball with your head may let coaches know where the ball was, but you will not be as consistent as someone who keeps their head rock solid.

You may be a great umpire, but the fact that you track the ball with your whole head is taking away from your potential, IMO. I used to do the same thing. I changed (after attending one of carl's clinics) and I am much more consistent now.

That's what a softball ump gets for talking on a baseball forum. We teach to turn the head slightly not in a jerking motion. By slightly I mean an inch. I umpired baseball for years and I can tell you that Tracking the ball as I have described is the only way I can see the entire pitch from the pitchers hand to the plate.