"Official" unofficial LL World Series Thread
 

For anyone watching Game 1 of the LL World Series, the first base umpire just made a great, gutsy, and correct call on a check swing appeal, punching the batter out with the bases loaded and two outs. It was the sort of call that I've seen quite a few umpires chicken out and call a no-swing.

So far, so good...it's early!

Check out the size of F3 playing right now for Saudi Arabia...
Biggest player in LLWS history. 6'9" 265 lbs I think they said. :eek:

Edited to add.... Correction, 6'8", 256lbs.

You should have waited until the second inning to post. the 1st base ump made a good call on the check swing, but has failed to get in position on any calls at first.

The plate guy's zone is awful. during one at bat he called a curveball down the middle a ball and a pitch at the eyes a strike. Also he hasn't made it past the plate on a ground ball yet.

Told ya it was early!:)

Yeah, the WP had 14 Ks, many of which on called 3rd strikes at the ankles or shoulders.

In the international game, good old Andy Konyar is working the left field line.

Big time Smitty at 2nd base, with the "incomplete pass" style safe call from the 50's.

Sheesh.... ya beat me to it....

I really don't think he can see the outside part of the plate. He seems to be missing those.

Not as bad as him punching the sky on an out on an attempted steal.

Yeah, another throwback to the days of yesteryear!

What the heck s that?

I am watchng the extra inning game right now. The PU points to first with his right hand for a check swing almost exactly like he does for a strike. He also has two completely different punch outs for right and left handed batters-nothing wrong with that...just interesting.

Do all little league batting helmets have this much padding? Holy Moley...I have never seen that much padding.

Joe

Start by crossing your arms in front of you, then out to the sides, cross them again, then out to the sides again. Like a football signal for "incomplete pass" or "no good" on a PAT/FG. Not the accepted mechanic for "safe."

My guess is that Easton gives each team a new set of catcher's gear and Wilson provides helmets that coordinate with the teams jersey color.

All the teams, thus far, have had that same style helmet. I believe that padding allows for the helmet to be "one size fits all". I'm sure it compresses for larger heads.

F.Y.I. The Cal Ripken tourney is going on as well. Those games are being show on OLN (Outdoor Life Network). If you want real baseball!

Yeah, I watched that for a little bit today. Real baseball and real Smitties to go with it from what I witnessed. And I've never seen so many blown rotations. Is it really that hard to remove your mask with the left hand?

The PU working the Venezuela game has an outside corner Tom Glavine would be jealous of.

His "ball" calls sound like "BAAH".

LOUD.

The hitters think he's saying "HAAH" which is confusing them.

Just watched first pitch to a batter ... off the plate... PU yells BAAH.

Batter looks back at PU cuz he thinks he called it a strike. Same thing on next pitch.

2-0 count batter takes 3rd pitch for actual strike on inside corner and heads to the dugout.

They have to call him back cuz it's only 2-1.

And, he uses different timing on left handed and right handed hitters. He has this delayed strike call with a point on right handers, but on lefties he calls strike much faster because he uses less footwork and a hammer. He is very inconsistent too.

I'm sitting here yelling at my TV on some of the outside the zone strikes he's calling. Can't hit those pitches with a 6 foot bat.

And what's with that "got him!" call on swinging strike 3? A bit over the top, IMO.

Smitty at first base is going to call a runner out one of these days while F3 is dropping the ball. Weak looking mechanics as well.

Now Eric Karros is saying he's very consistent. Get a clue, Eric. Consistently bad, maybe.

This guy is terrible!

He totally butchered that 1/2 inning.

Did you see 1U call no-swing before PU had actually asked?

Yeah, what is that "got him" crap.

I find it utterly impossible to enjoy watching these games because of the Smitty factor. I can't seem to watch anything but these goofs during the LLWS!

Here we have a kid throwing 75 MPH from 46 ft. Then, if that isn't hard enough to hit the ball when it's in the zone, we have this guy working the plate that wants to be the show, calling them 6 inches outside as strikes. Then, the very next pitch is maybe an inch outside, belt high, and he calls it a ball.

Hey, during this rain delay, they are showing the game from earlier today. Is it just on my set, or is the info box in the top left of the screen missing from the picture except the bottom right corner? What is up with that?

Steve, I think its just yours..also, I am sure that the umpire/umpires do NOT want to be the show in these games...at the same time they probably understand that these kids arent big league players, like you seem to think they are. You dont want pitches called strikes that they kids cant hit...how long do you think games would take it they decided to "not be the show" and called a rule book strike zone?! Id guess a long, long time. And then they would accidentally become the show trying not to be the show....get it? great.

Can't agree with you there OA,

There have already been games that have lasted too long because teams can't score runs because the pitching is dominant due to 2 reasons:

Pitching is very good and strike zones are huge.

Makes no sense. If pitching is so good, why are strike zones huge?

Makes complete sense. Keep up.

Pitching is good so they don't need to expand the zone, but they are, which is resulting in the pitching being dominant.

Didn't think it was that difficult to understand.

I really don't think it was just on my TV. You probably weren't watching anyway, since it sounds like you weren't from the way you're talking to me.

Why do you think that I don't know the difference between big league players and these kids. That is just plain stupid on your part to even suggest that. Don't talk down to people, it is impolite.

No, I don't want pitches called strikes that the players can't reach. They are having a hard enough time hitting strikes, without having to hit pitches that are in the opposite batter's box.

The Smitty working the plate on this particular game has a horribly inconsistent strike zone, poor timing with left handed hitters, and a very confusing ball and strike vocal, with both sounding very similar in duration and tone. And he says "got him!" on swinging strike 3. The "show" comment came from that, not his zone.

As far as having a big wide zone goes, that is really neat for working a Junior League game, where 13 year-olds are throwing from 60'6" away. But from 46 ft. they need to hit spots just like the big guys do. And they do. Sure, they get a bit more on the edges, but not the ridiculous zone that this guy was calling.

It wasn't just your TV SDS.

Alll of the above, plus "THAT'S A CHECK!" when what he really means to be saying is "that's a swing" or "that's an offer." He thinks "check" is synonymous with "swing," when it's the opposite.

That one was my favorite.

Umpires always watch the umpires and critique their work. Like Monk says, it's a blessing and a curse.

I tried giving an umpire's perspective at a Padres fan site last year, and nearly got tarred and feathered for "leading with my umpireness," as the chief complaintant put it. He told me that it must be sad to see things from an umpire's point of view. I guess that's what he means. It is hard to sit back and enjoy games when all we do is watch the umpires.

So, nobody watching the IL/NY game? I don't know where to start with this plate umpire, but I hope he's enjoying his lifetime participation award.

Is there some sort of LL mechanic that prohibits PU from going up the first baseline on balls batted in the infield? I haven't seen any of these LLWS guys do this and really am curious about it...

I've been watching it some. I couldn't believe the blown call by the 1B Ump on the pulled foot at 1B in the top of the 3rd when the IL runner was called out. I also was surprised that the IL mgr. didn't politely appeal to the U1 to get help. Maybe he realized it would have been futile.

JM

Yes.....I feel bad for him he looks so stupid.

No, there is no prohibiting mechanic.
Some umps go and some do not.

Good call, Rich.

Watching the NY/IL game, this seems to be a standard mechanic. The first
base umpire, (who is either female or Phil Mickelson :D ), has been doing it all
night. Also, what's with bringing up the left arm to the right elbow, making
a right angle ? That looks like a softball mechanic to me. Ugly.

Here is a start:

His head was way too low.
He moved on every pitch.
He really moved if he thought the pitch was going to hit him.
He called the pitches way to fast.
He pointed on strikes and they looked terrible as he didn't extend his arm out all the way.
Sometimes he pointed while he was still crouched down.
He didn't verbalize his "ball" calls (he did do it sometimes but he said the location...he would say nothing but "outside")
For strike three calls the only thing he said was "batter's out", and he gave some weak looking hammer with his left fist touching his right elbow.
He stood at a 45 degree angle to the plate when he dusted it off.
There was one HBP where it just hit the batter's shirt, and all he did was put his right hand up in the air like 2 seconds after the pitch and he said nothing.
There was a half swing which he called a strike. He said nothing and signaled it by doing that weak hammer and then pointing.
He didn't take his mask off for plays at the plate.
He did that weak looking hammer when he called a guy out at the plate on a close play, and he didn't verbalize the out call.

This one's easy. She was holding her arm up.

YU.P., yU.P.
But LDUB, how 'bout that missed bunt attempt and the throw to second ? --> no signal and then mumbled "strike" two minutes later.

What about the announcers selling the Big League play by the second baseman, when U2 probably called R1 out of the baseline?

What about how the game ended? That game was a toilet bowl.
mick

Hell, even I can get to the 45 ft. line. PWL, the young bucks these days end up practically at first base. Face it, you're too damn old. You're supposed to be set for the call anyway, not chasing anyone down the line.

I get down there--many opportunities for pulled feets, etc. Heck, it's LL. Especially in two-man where U1 is making calls at 1B from deep B. I went to PU for help with F3's feets at least twice this post-season.

Before you ask "why" here, any LL vet will tell you that when there's ANY runner on base, you can never bet on where a LL infielder will play a grounder--no matter what the level of ball.

BTW, the plate ump for the NY/IL game wouldn't get a 3B job in my District. Is it, as somene elegantly said here, "the lifetime achievement award."

Ace

And one of the players yelling "we need one more F*@$ing run," then the coach slapping the player.

That's not typically covered in the first year of LL umpire training, and many of these umpires only have one year of experience. Some of them as many as 30 times, but still only one year.

Circular argument...nonsensical, too.

With so many umpire around, it's probably not needed.

Six umpires on the tiny field reminds me of Lance's "Mechanics for the 13 umpire system," in which you've got the traditional four umpires, plus one for each fielder. Now THAT'S officiating!

My speculation is the coaches have been ordered to refrain from any arguments with umpires, and the coach was just too intimidated by that environment to even make a justified and polite request for U1 to seek help. She surely needed it.

How about the blown call in the St Charles game at 1B? Runner was clearly safe, got banged out after F6 went into the hole. Good play, but not "WebGems' material IMO. Runner was clearly safe.

Karros says the usual bromide, "Well, if its a good defensive play, then if the play at 1B is at all close the ump is going to call you out." :rolleyes:

No it's not. The guy is simply saying that at this level, pitchers can throw strikes. Therefore, the umpires need not call the "regular season, regular 12 yearold" strikezone, which includes calling pitches that are essentially unhittable strikes. Some (not all, but some) of these LLWS PU's are still calling zones like you have to call in LL minors when the 5th string pitcher is in. I've seen a ton of low and away or just way outside pitches called strikes in this weekend's games. The guy you're accusing of circular reasoning is simply saying those kind of calls only make the hitters' jobs go from already difficult to nearly impossible. In some of these games, he's right.

Talk about 'shopping for a call' :D

Agreed, thanks for translation :D


The zone is as big as Montana.....ridiculous. I can't understand why the coaches put up with it (can't bel I said that ;) )

I know they have been 'warned' not to b!tch on TV, but cmon. Some of these kids are going down on pitches you couldnt touch with a telephone pole. Sad.


In a LL game (s) with hitters this good, if every other game goes regulation with a 0-0 tie (which it seems like is the case), then you know the zone is too liberal.

You all might be right about the over-generous strike zone, but those pitchers' duels move fast, and ESPN loves 'em! Keeps the games under 2 hours every time!

LL games are only 6 innings; a game played at this level should finish under 2 hours easily without any help from an inappropriate strikezone. If the teams aren't evenly matched, as in some of the international games played this weekend, the 10 run rule comes to the rescue.

:( That's the biggest complaint I have about the umpiring behind the plate this year,they are making the zone WAY to wide.Like it's already been said some of the called strikes you couldn't have hit without a five foot bat.

Thanks Dave.

Also, as a coach/father of a team that participated in the SE regional, I was much more impressed, (no, not impressed, less disgusted maybe) with the crews in Florida than what I am seeing in W'port.

midtnblu (AKA the guy with circular reasoning)

You have to clear the batter? I thought he was way out in front of you! :)

You umpire games with Ichiro? Most of my game involve players which aren't as fast as Ichiro. I am usually very close to the 45 ft. line, set, straddling the grass line, and watching the play at first, when the runner arrives at the base. I am not slow-footed in the least.

PWL, I know you played minor league ball, but I wouldn't assume that I could never have beaten you in a race. You don't know how fast I was in my younger, skin-and-bones days.

Japan vs. Mexico...top of the 5th: Why was the batter-runner awarded third on the ball that was thrown from the infield and lodged in the tarp? He had rounded second before the ump called time, but isn't it two bases from time of pitch on first throw from the infield? Am I missing something here?

While watching the game between Japan and Mexico, it's apparent that to get to the LLWS, you don't really need to know the rules either. Case in point:
Top of the fifth. 1 out. No runners on base. BR hits a ground ball to the infield, F5 fields and throws it past F3 and out of play. BR awarded third base. After the "crew" gets together to talk the award over, they agree that BR belongs on third because he was past first "when the ball went out of play.":eek:

These guy's not only look like s#!t, they don't know the basic rules.

See my post.... I wish I could type faster...

Guess I'm not the only one questioning the call!

I love the announcers praising the call, too!

Why was there no question from the defensive manager? Are the coaches chained to the bench in Williamsport or what?

Andy, Andy, Andy.....

Konyer can't blame anyboy else anymore. Regionals had the best umpiring seen in LL. LLWS assignments obviously have nothing to do with ability, performance or even intelligence.

It should be embarrassing to LL HQ to be shown up by the Regionals. If Andy get figure this out, he needs to be replaced by someone who can. Watching LLWS is the only time I find myself siding with Rats and being amazed at how well behaved they can be.

Seriously, are the managers not allowed to question these morons or what? Whats the deal?:confused:

With Orel, Eric, and Orestis, I'm beginning to miss Harold already! I think he may have had a clue that the umpires kicked the ruling.

That commercial for LL Baseball volunteers shows the umpire walking off the field shaking hands (or holding hands) with the coach after the game. I guess stuff like this is what makes some umpires feel the need to go around shaking hands after games.

Now I can look forward to a coach wanting this call for his runner next year and at some point of the arguement he'll say, "You're wrong, I saw this same thing during the world series last year and the runner was awarded third!" :rolleyes:

Say it ain't so!
 

I'll say it again, just to make the point: Umpiring in the LL WS (Williamsport) will be 5-10 years behind regions in quality.

The waiting list is that long (One needs to do state, then a regional or two before being put on the waiting list). Right now it's a 5-10 year wait between placement on the WS approved list and actually being called. 3-5 years for other age groups and all softball.

This was been an agenda item at the last LL Congress (My guess would be the last several too) and was shot down (Failed to even get to a vote).

IMO they should take the top x rated umpires from the last two years regionals for next year. Add in a mix of the good old boys for line umpires and perhaps bases & move forward. Umpires would need the advance notice in most cases, as doing a regional then WS would mean at least three if not four weeks away from work and family. Even if this was a paid gig (Ha ha) that would be too much for most folks.

A mechanics change or two would be good but that's a whole different thread .....

Wow. Do your time, bust your can, then wait on a list 5-10 years for the 'privilege' of having your reputation sullied on national TV by association with uber-Smittys.

{sarcasm} Where do I sign up? {/sarcasm} :rolleyes:

X-Rated umpires, how does one get on that list?

Good point!
 

I agree totally. My son has enjoyed watching all of the games, and I have tried to not say much and even he has commented on the umpires.

Most typical, "daddy that's not even close to a strike"

And he's only eight!

Thanks
David

You have to attend the Ron Jeremy Academy Of Professional X-rated Umpiring.

Ok, I deserved that one!

I meant to say X number of umpires

The combination of moving the fences back to 225' and the dominant pitching has resulted in 8 shutouts so far, proving the old axiom that good pitching will stop good hitting.

Player and coach reprimanded
 

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/llws06/news/story?id=2556529" target=_blank>Player & Coach Reprimanded</a>

Good pitching + Eric Gregg strike zone*2 = no hitting :D

Yeah, I forgot to add the huge zones into the mix.

I watched about an hour of the Lake Charles game today and I must say, the HPU had a recent zone. There were some great pitches that he balled though and the catcher and the pitcher for the New England team let him know it! The pitcher was making some physical gestures [ like where's that pitch]. The plate guy never said a word....not me baby.....I'm not a red-***, but I gonna clean off the plate and tell the catcher to tell his buddy to knock the crap off or he can watch the rest of the game from the ping-pong rec room!! haha Chris

Just finished watching the OR-MO game. PU seemed to be keeping the status-quo. I must say though, early in the game he did head down the line on a ground ball to the infield.

However, he needs to cut the straps on his mask. He looked like a 70's style TV antenna!:D

So, this was what 32, 33 years ago? What does that have to do with now. I could run pretty fast too. I did happen to Major in Physical Education in college, and was proficient in 12 different sports. I've ran track events, including the high hurdles, the 440 individual, and the 880 relay. I took Coaching Track And Field at SDSU at age 28, and was required to perform every track and field event, including pole vault, hammer, and shot put. I have worked as an official at 10K's and 1/2 marathons here in San Diego (I would certainly expire if I tried to run in one!).

Now, I'm sure you were much faster than I was, but I was by NO MEANS SLOW, and I'm not slow now, either.

BTW, can you still throw better than Mike, because he just gunned down a runner stealing 2nd, and it reminded me to ask?

The PU working the AZ-NY game sure is jumpy. On high pitches he practically dives into a foxhole!


INCOMING!!!!!

This catcher from Venezuela sure complains a lot about balls and strikes. Looks like the pitcher is a little whiner too. They both want pitches a foot outside to be called strikes, and they throw their hands up in disgust and stomp around when they don't get the calls. Oh, now the pitcher is crying as he leaves the mound. Yeah, that 2-run homer you served up was the umpire's fault too. I hope Mexico cleans their clock.

Why are these plate guys/gal puttin' up with these kids? Tellum to "knock it off" or get out! IMO

I was wondering the same thing. To their defense, if I don't speak their language and they don't speak english... what could you do? I agree that under normal circumstances... I have a few words for them as I clean the plate. But if they can't understand me, what then?

Since the other thread was closed - Slap Part Deux - the Recap:

Garth sez "No" - never, ever, ever should a grown man slap a 12 year old in the face.

Many others claim that while the coach acted reprehensibly, there are times when such a typically inappropriate measure may be warranted.

If the youth is threatening violence against another person, has just spit in your face, insulted a dying relative, threatens to give away a costly secret or otherwise undermines the rational authority of an adult, corrective physical measures may be in order. "May" is a modal verb and if you are unclear as to its meaning, look it up.

Domestic violence is an issue in the world. Child abuse is maddening. The case we were discussing was neither.

Thank you Bob for being objective, but you should have closed the thread after your comment.

I think you're right WWTB. Shouldn't have hijacked this thread but you're right. No, hell isn't freezing over either.

Last night I watched the Ven. / Saudi game...... I thought if music broke out during the inning the HP umpire would have fit right in !!....He did more dancing then umpiring !!.....No Mechanic was the same more then 1 time in over a dozen calls......delayed calls for left hand batters.....Quick calls for right handers...... This young kids daddy must be the reason he's there !!!

Watching the Oregon / Illinois game..... in the bottom of the 5th.....HP ump looks pretty solid.....the only thing I saw i don't like is the shooting strike... (strike call hand, thumb up and first finger extended rest of fingers curled up.)

Seen several MLB umpires do the same thing. Tom Hallion used to many years ago when working the scissors.

This is the way I call a strike... except for two points:
1) My thumb isn't as stiff (ie sticking straight up) as his
2) I verbalize as I make the mechanic, not before.

They understand pretty well, and if they don't, I speak their language, and will if I absolutely have to. No means no in both languages.

It looks like Oregon is trying to give the game away here! High drama!!!

The comeback kids are done...:(

Now the Illinois kids can blame the 1st base umpire for losing the game for them.:rolleyes:

First Base Umpire

Yeah, the Illinois team can blame the game on the first base umpire...

That call did have an effect on the game. I think we could all agree!

If he'd have made the proper call (safe), a run would have scored on the batter who was hit in the head. Another would have scored on the past ball.

That would have tied it and shifted the momentum for sure!

What else would you expect from these umpires.

Did you see where the CEO of Little League Baseball was in the booth with the ESPN crew and they said something about the umpires and the CEO (Steve) says that these are the best umpires that Little League has to offer.

We, umpires, know that is not the truth. To the public though, what might they think when they hear that, then see these guys and gal constantly missing calls.

Once again U1 is taking plays at first from the 'A' postion in foul ground...

Did anyone see U1 give the batter who got hit in the head a high five and a pat on the back when he got down to first base?

If "ifs and buts were candy and nuts....". The deal is, Illinois had more opportunities to score throughout the game, which they did not take advantage of. No one call "cost them the game." The catcher could have blocked the plate better an applied the tag a split-second earlier on the squeeze bunt, and that would have saved a run. The team made mistakes, even more than that umpire, believe it or not.

I called that runner at 1st safe in live action, and the replay showed that safe would have been the right call. But the umpire missed it, and that's the breaks. Many times calls have an effect on the game, but very rarely, if ever, is that one call the reason a team wins or loses a game.

Can I get an amen from the Bobbleheads?
http://www.news10.tv/assetpool/image...lehead-185.jpg

I had an out in live action, thinking U1 nailed it. Replay contradicted me, but it was very close, and something of a squirrel because of F3's leap.

Call me crazy, but I think the fact that Illinois had no hits, zero, nada, none, in six innings of play had SOMETHING to do with their ending up on the short end. Bad calls are part of the game. It's a simple game, but "you hit the ball" is a third of it.

I said, "Damn, that was close." That's one that could've gone either way... tough call, but he sold it.... actually he sold them all so did he really sell any of them?

Yeah, he sold the last out of the game, when the runner was out by 3 steps. So, what is the use of selling any calls if you use your banger call on the routine plays?

I don't think he sold any... if he were to sell a call I think the mechanic would start with a front flip...:D

Close play, but on replay looks like he booted it. Question, would you toss the B/R for throwing his helmet afterwards?