Never reward a bad Defensive Play !

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What are you talking about? You lost me, pal. A way of reconciling the inability to distinguish which came first? No, by rule, the runner has to beat the play. Ties do not go to the runner. Same time = out has nothing to do with guesswork, or keeping things simple. The runner didn't beat the ball, so he is out. That is the way it's supposed to be called.

So you're going with rulebook literal, eh? Then I suggest you read the different rulebook references to batter runner at first base, and other runners on force plays. It's not consistent. Some references endorse the "same time = out," and others reduce, literally read, to "same time = safe."

You could look it up.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

So you're going with rulebook literal, eh? Then I suggest you read the different rulebook references to batter runner at first base, and other runners on force plays. It's not consistent. Some references endorse the "same time = out," and others reduce, literally read, to "same time = safe."

You could look it up.

Read it, been there, done that. I don't subscribe to the contradictory rule theory. I use 7.08(e), 7.01, and 6.05(j) for my "Runner is out" decisions:

7.08(e) - Any runner is out when he fails to touch the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

Rule 7.01 says basically the same thing: A runner aquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he's out.

Rule 6.05(j) says pretty much the same thing too, in dealing with the B/R: A batter is out when after a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base. (I find the distinction so minute, and not at all contradictory, that it still requires the runner to beat the play.)

So, to summarize: A runner is out if he does not clearly beat the play. A runner is safe, if he acquires the base before he is out, and he's out if he fails to acquire the base before he or the base is tagged.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

(I find the distinction so minute, and not at all contradictory, that it still requires the runner to beat the play.)

On that note, and your followup post that shows I've upset you to the point that you're getting personal, I conclude there's nothing to be gained by further dialogue.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

On that note, and your followup post that shows I've upset you to the point that you're getting personal, I conclude there's nothing to be gained by further dialogue.

Look, both you and Garth have been basically insinuating that I'm stupid, so I think it got personal way before my post.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Look, both you and Garth have been basically insinuating that I'm stupid, so I think it got personal way before my post.

Please, show me.