LL rules

[benbret]

two out R1 on third R2 on second. BR hits a single. As R2 gets to third, basecoach pushes him toward home. After play, BU calls R2 out for being touched by a coach and says that R1 run does not count. Is this correct?

[mattmets]

If R3 had touched home before R2 was contacted by the coach, score the run. If R3 had not yet reached home, no run.

[Rcichon]

Yes timing is involved. See:

7.09(i) & PENALTY FOR INTERFERENCE

Ball is dead at the time of Interference.

[NFump]

Wouldn't the ball still be live in the case of coach's interference or assistance as this case is?

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by NFump

Wouldn't the ball still be live in the case of coach's interference or assistance as this case is?

Yes, it is. OBR is screwed up. It's a delayed dead ball by interpretations.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Yes, it is. OBR is screwed up. It's a delayed dead ball by interpretations.

By whose interpretations?

OBR RULE 2 DEFINITIONS..INTERFERENCE

(a) Offensive interference is an act by the team at bat which interferes with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play. If the umpire declares the batter, batter runner, or a runner out for interference, all other runners shall return to the last base that was in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the interference, unless otherwise provided by these rules. In the event the batter runner has not reached first base, all runners shall return to the base last occupied at the time of the pitch.
On any interference the ball is dead.

7.09 It is interference by a batter or a runner when-

(i) In the judgment of the umpire, the base coach at third base, or first base, by touching or holding the runner, physically assists him in returning to or leaving third base or first base.

PENALTY FOR INTERFERENCE:

The runner is out and the ball is dead.

Read it and weep. Where do you see "delayed dead ball", ANYWHERE?

Bob

[LakeErieUmp]

Not meaning to be a spoilsport in this brewing argument, but what does it matter if the ball is "dead" on the interference or not? It's very dead because we now have three outs! (and no runners on any base - and God forbid we have any "is the ball dead between innings" conversations!)

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

Not meaning to be a spoilsport in this brewing argument, but what does it matter if the ball is "dead" on the interference or not? It's very dead because we now have three outs! (and no runners on any base - and God forbid we have any "is the ball dead between innings" conversations!)

1..In the original post, there were TWO runners, not none.
2.."If R3 had touched home before R2 was contacted by the coach, score the run. If R3 had not yet reached home, no run." Since the ball is dead IMMEDIATELY on ALL interference calls, NO runner may score.
3..Since, with less than two outs, runners return to last base legally touched at the time of the interference, it makes a world of difference.
4.."and God forbid we have any "is the ball dead between innings" conversations!)" Totally asinine statement.

Bob

[LakeErieUmp]

Right. Two runners. R1 (or R3, depending on whether he's describing runners by base or in the FED way) and R2. If the interference occurs before R1/R3 hits the plate, out number three and no run. If R1/R3 hits the plate before the interference, run scores and out number three. In either even, it's three outs and no runners because it's three outs.

[Dave Reed]

bluezebra replied to the assertion that the ball is "delayed dead" following a coach assisting a runner:

Originally Posted by bluezebra

By whose interpretations?
[quoted OBR skipped here].....
PENALTY FOR INTERFERENCE:
The runner is out and the ball is dead.
Read it and weep. Where do you see "delayed dead ball", ANYWHERE?

Jaksa/Roder-- They say: "It is inteference if a coach physically assists a runner's advance or return to a base. Penalty: such runner is out but the ball remains live."
In J/R's world the ball isn't "delayed dead" or immediately dead; they leave the ball live. IIRC, JEA also leaves the ball live.

[Rcichon]

Remember the post title: LL Rules.........

Hey, I'd like to leave the ball live too.I go home sooner that way.

[mattmets]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

2.."If R3 had touched home before R2 was contacted by the coach, score the run. If R3 had not yet reached home, no run." Since the ball is dead IMMEDIATELY on ALL interference calls, NO runner may score.

Wrong. If the run scores before the interference is called (when the coach contacts the runner), you'd better belive that run is going to score.

[DG]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

Read it and weep. Where do you see "delayed dead ball", ANYWHERE?

Bob

2006 BRD 289
FED: The ball is delayed dead, and the batter-runner or runner is out.
NCAA: The ball is delayed dead. "At the end of play, the assisted runner shall be declared out".
OBR: OFF INTERP 201-289: PBUC STAFF: Following the interference the assisted runner is out, but the ball remains alive.

J/R: physically assists a runner's advance or return to a base. Penalty: such runner is out but the the ball remains alive.

It may be semantics that "delayed dead" is not used in OBR, but "remains alive" amounts to the same thing in this case.

[aceholleran]

Just common sense that you don't kill the play on coacher's interference. Why penalize the "d" when they might have a play elsewhere? Yes, I realize there were two outs at the time.

Am I the only one who gets mildly annoyed when sitches show depict runners by the order they're on base as opposed to the base they began the play on, e. g., "R1 on third, R2 on first ..." I think Fed might do it this way.

Ace

[Dave Hensley]

[QUOTE=Dave Reed]bluezebra replied to the assertion that the ball is "delayed dead" following a coach assisting a runner:

Originally Posted by bluezebra

By whose interpretations?



Jaksa/Roder-- They say: "It is inteference if a coach physically assists a runner's advance or return to a base. Penalty: such runner is out but the ball remains live."
In J/R's world the ball isn't "delayed dead" or immediately dead; they leave the ball live. IIRC, JEA also leaves the ball live.

Evans says to kill it immediately if a play is being made on the assisted runner. If no play is being made, call the interference but leave the ball live under the enforcement principle that the defense should be entitled to make additional plays on other runners.

Bluezebra is also incorrect in stating the ball is immediately dead on all interference calls. In addition to the coach's assistance under discussion, the OBR and professional interpretations endorse the delayed dead ball concept for both batter's interference and catcher's interference.

That said, in the play as described, if I were certain that the coach's assistance occurred before the run scored, I would treat it as a time play and disallow the run.