obs on throwback

[smoump]

share your stories of obstruction called on a throwback (i.e. pickoff, etc) Sat I had a situation where the catcher after recieving a pitch, threw to second. SS was covering, as soon as I opened up (C), I saw the SS drop his leg to cover the entire bag. He then recieved the throw and tagged the runner. The runner's hands obviously only touched the SS's leg. Since he blocked then caught, I called obs and awarded runner 3rd. Coach yelled that he had never seen that called. I told him that he just did.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by smoump

share your stories of obstruction called on a throwback (i.e. pickoff, etc) Sat I had a situation where the catcher after recieving a pitch, threw to second. SS was covering, as soon as I opened up (C), I saw the SS drop his leg to cover the entire bag. He then recieved the throw and tagged the runner. The runner's hands obviously only touched the SS's leg. Since he blocked then caught, I called obs and awarded runner 3rd. Coach yelled that he had never seen that called. I told him that he just did.

If this was a Little League Baseball ruled game, OBS was the correct call. In any other rule set, if in your judgment the throw was not imminent, then you made the correct call also. If the fielder was in the process of receiving the throw when the runner arrived at the base, your judgment of whether F6 had the right to block the base or not would determine how you ruled.

In LL Baseball, there is a new rule which states that a fielder may not block the base without possession of the ball. All other codes allow for being in the immediate act of fielding the ball and blocking the base.

[bob jenkins]

NCAA also has the "must be in posession of the ball" ruling / language.

[smoump]

it was american legion and the ball had not reached the cutout. However, in legion you must have possession of the ball in order to block base.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by smoump

it was american legion and the ball had not reached the cutout. However, in legion you must have possession of the ball in order to block base.

That's simply not true. American Legion plays under slightly modified OBR. Obstruction is not one of the rules that have been modified. This is taken directly from my American Legion Umpires Manual.

4.21 Obstruction:

Obstruction is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding the ball, impedes the progress of any runner.

If a fielder is about to receive a thrown ball and if the ball is in flight directly toward and near enough to the fielder so he must occupy his position to receive the ball, he may be considered “in the act of fielding a ball.” It is entirely up to the judgment of the umpire as to whether a fielder is in the act of fielding a ball.

After a fielder has made an attempt to field a ball and has missed, he can no longer be in the “act of fielding” the ball. For example: If an infielder dives at a ground ball and the ball passes him and he continues to lie on the ground and delays the progress of the runner, he very likely has obstructed the runner. In all cases of obstruction, the umpire calling the play should have the benefit of the advice of his partners. The umpire watching the obstruction will have difficulty in determining the position of other runners. It is recommended that, when “Time” is called on obstruction, if there is any doubt in the minds of the umpires about where the runners shall be placed, the umpires shall confer.




Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

NCAA also has the "must be in posession of the ball" ruling / language.

Sorry, I should read those rules more carefully before inserting my size 14 in my oral cavity.

[DG]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

That's simply not true. American Legion plays under slightly modified OBR. Obstruction is not one of the rules that have been modified. This is taken directly from my American Legion Umpires Manual.

4.21 Obstruction:

Obstruction is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding the ball, impedes the progress of any runner.

If a fielder is about to receive a thrown ball and if the ball is in flight directly toward and near enough to the fielder so he must occupy his position to receive the ball, he may be considered “in the act of fielding a ball.” It is entirely up to the judgment of the umpire as to whether a fielder is in the act of fielding a ball.

Apparently a rules change for 2006, as I remember it the same as you do. The rules I downloaded recently include the following:

"If the defensive player blocks the base (plate) or base line without the ball, obstruction shall be called. The runner is safe and a delayed dead ball shall be called. Ruling: If the runner collides flagrantly, he shall be declared safe on the obstruction, but will be ejected from the contest. The ball is dead."

4.21 in the Umpire's Manual appears to be in conflict with the actual rules posted.

So this is not simple.

[ggk]

2006 Legion Guide
Rule #22, Approved Ruling 2
.........If the defensive player blocks the base (plate) or base line clearly without the ball, or is not in the immediate act of catching the ball, obstruction shall be called.

i think the intent of this rule is pretty much the same on all levels. it allows the fielder to momentarily block the base or plate while he is about to receive a throw.

[smoump]

ball was not even in cutout. I awarded third. It would of been wrong of me to call runner out, he never had an opportunity to reach the base.

[lawump]

On a play at the plate involving the catcher blocking the plate without the ball, I was taught at umpire school (OBR) that this was legal if the thrown ball was 60-feet (pitcher's mound) or closer to the catcher. That is, that the catcher is in the "act of fielding the (thrown) ball" when that ball is no further than that distance. An equivalent distance would be used for throws on the bases.

Based on the language posted by BigUmp56, I have used this same interpretation in my American Legion games since leaving pro ball. The one time a coach came out to argue for a call of "obstruction", I gave him this interpretation. While he did not feel that the ball in flight was at the pitcher's mound or closer, he did not argue with my rules interpretation at all (only that the ball was not that close). I know that's not saying much...I mean he was a coach. His argument that the ball was not that close, however, was not that animated and it appeared to me that my interpretation as explained to him took a lot of "wind out of his sails".

[BigUmp56]

I was taught to ask myself two questions when determining whether or not the fielder was in the immediate act of fielding the ball.

* Did he have to go there to field the throw?

* Did he set up illegally in the basepath to field the throw to that spot?


It's worked for me over the years.


Tim.

[Paul L]

I understand awarding second on obstruction, but why third? Would BU not have to judge that the runner would have made it to third without the obstruction?

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by DG

Apparently a rules change for 2006, as I remember it the same as you do. The rules I downloaded recently include the following:

"If the defensive player blocks the base (plate) or base line without the ball, obstruction shall be called. The runner is safe and a delayed dead ball shall be called. Ruling: If the runner collides flagrantly, he shall be declared safe on the obstruction, but will be ejected from the contest. The ball is dead."

4.21 in the Umpire's Manual appears to be in conflict with the actual rules posted.

So this is not simple.

Also, you should check STATE legion rules. I know my state slightly modifies what the national book says.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I understand awarding second on obstruction, but why third? Would BU not have to judge that the runner would have made it to third without the obstruction?

Paul:

In the original post it was a pick off attempt on R2. If he judged this as obstruction it would be type A and the award would be at least one base beyond the last legally occupied base.



Tim.

[DG]

I'm sure I read somewhere that on a play at the plate the general rule of thumb is that if the ball is in flight over the cutout then a play is imminent. The cutout is about 13 feet in diameter. 60 feet away is not close enough.

I suppose you could use this same rule of thumb at 2B, or any other base, if working with a rule set that does not require the fielder to have the ball to block the base.

There are no state modified Legion rules I am aware of in my state. I'm not sure I understand why any state would modify the national rules for play at that level.