Check swing, to help or not to help...

[BigGref]

I haven't seen this discussed anywhere recently so I will fire away.

in 2-man is it rare to say a batter went from the B or C position. To me it seems that you don't have that good angle. How often (if ever) has anyone overturned from B or C? How have coaches reacted? thanks

[BigUmp56]

Sometimes people make this more complicated than it needs to be. Yes, the optimium positions to call a check swing from are A and D. That doesn't mean that we can't see an attempt from B or C. If I'm on the stick I will ask if I'm unsure or if the defense asks me to. When I go to my partner I expect him to tell me exactly what he has. I'm not proud, so if he overturns me, so what, that's one more strike we have as a team. When I'm running the bases I will give my partner exactly what I have as well. I think the one thing that gets lost in the debate is the fact that there are many times when we don't get a good look from behind the plate. If we're tracking a low-outside pitch all the way to mitt like we're supposed to, it's not hard to miss a check swing.


Tim.

[pdxblue]

I just use where his hands went. If his hands got out from his body, regardless of what the bat did, or the wrist, I have a strike. It is easy to call from B and C, and I have found no more complaints using that as the criteria as anything else!

Most importantly is how you sell it. I give every check swing a HUGE emphasis! I sell it like it is the most important call of the game. Seriously, in the last 3 years since I started doing that, I have not had a single arguement about a check swing, and almost no "grumbles".

[Tim C]

"How often (if ever) has anyone overturned from B or C?"

Umpires that hide behind this type statement either do not understand the checked/unchecked swing rule or don't have the guts to make a tough call.

Of course that is only my opinion,

Regards,

[jkumpire]

In fact, where I work, I get guys who say, "If I'm inside, I can't tell, don't ask me." then it is usually a long day... In reply, "if you're not sure he did, it's a ball". "Still, don't ask me". Ugh.

I also had an umpire friend (works independent pro and NCAA), who was coaching a HS team in a District final. R1, 1 out, 1-2. There's a check, R1 is running. R1 is safe. My friend asks for an appeal of the check swing. PU asks, the BU yells in, "I don't know."

"WHAT?", screams my friend. "You got two answers, and that ain't one of them."
BU replies, "I was worried about the runner stealing, so I don't know. Now shut up and sit down."

The guy was the highest rated umpire in his District by the District's coaches.

[Zebra in NV]

Originally Posted by BigGref

snip
in 2-man is it rare to say a batter went from the B or C position. To me it seems that you don't have that good angle. How often (if ever) has anyone overturned from B or C? How have coaches reacted? thanks

Our association allows us to stay in B for RHB and C for LHB for a better check swing angle. That said, it is my belief that (please correct me if I have it wrong) as PU, if you call "Yes he went", there is no help. IF you call it a strike as PU, it's a done deal (9.02 c ?). I have had coaches/catchers try to go for help for a check I called "he went - strike", I just tell them the call has been made (never had a coach go nuts over it).

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by Zebra in NV

Our association allows us to stay in B for RHB and C for LHB for a better check swing angle.

moving between B and C depending on the handedness of the batter is not needed (in 2 man). get in position for the calls you will need to make on the bases, not the one or two check swings you might have your hands on per game. however, if that is the accepted positioning, then i guess go with it.

[DG]

Originally Posted by BigGref

I haven't seen this discussed anywhere recently so I will fire away.

in 2-man is it rare to say a batter went from the B or C position. To me it seems that you don't have that good angle. How often (if ever) has anyone overturned from B or C? How have coaches reacted? thanks

It's about as rare as saying he went from the A, because most partners will ring up a strike if he went so where I am standing is irrelevant. However, when I am working the plate I go over this in pre-game by saying "I am automatic on check swings, if they ask I come to you regardless of where you are standing, if you have a swing call it, if not don't".

[JRutledge]

When your partner asks you what you have on a checked swing, you give them what you see no matter what position you are on the field. If you cannot do that, I personally have no need for you on the field and I can work the game by myself. It is not like the PU can always tell with a catcher in front of him and a batter hanging over the plate. I am completely with Tim on this issue.

Peace

[mrumpire11]

Originally Posted by pdxblue

I just use where his hands went. If his hands got out from his body, regardless of what the bat did, or the wrist, I have a strike. It is easy to call from B and C, and I have found no more complaints using that as the criteria as anything else!

Most importantly is how you sell it. I give every check swing a HUGE emphasis! I sell it like it is the most important call of the game. Seriously, in the last 3 years since I started doing that, I have not had a single arguement about a check swing, and almost no "grumbles".

so your saying that all you care about is the batters hands, and not if he "attempted" to swing at the pitch? interesting, its a good thing that you "sell" your calls.