Here a balk, there a balk...

[BigUmp56]

To avoid confusion you might want to start calling it a foul tip.


Tim.

[mcrowder]

"Caught Foul Tip"?!?!? It's not splitting hairs - that's just flat wrong. And redundant. And repetitive. And redundant.

By definition, a foul tip must be caught - an uncaught one is no longer a foul tip. And no one with an ounce of training would call this a "Caught Foul Tip."

[bossman72]

orioles,

When the foul tip happened, did you verbalize anything at all? did you say "Foul Tip!" or "Foul ball!" ??

[orioles35]

Nothing verbalized. Since the batter swung, I signaled "strike" and let the play develop.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by orioles35

Nothing verbalized. Since the batter swung, I signaled "strike" and let the play develop.

orioles35,

I'm a little confused about why you killed the play as the defense was making a legitimate attempt to put out the clueless runner who had left the base in his mistaken belief that he had to return to 1B.

In your initial description, it was the offensive coach who was saying "foul ball". Why punish the defense? If you are playing under FED rules, there is the notion of "Verbal Obstruction" which would apply if someone on the defense told the runner it was a foul ball - but you said you didn't know who told him.

Their are two rules (OBR) about the runner running the bases in reverese order. The one more people have heard of is 7.08(i) which contains the ever popular "travesty of the game" phrase; it only applies when the runner does it to intentionally "confuse the defense", not when he is under the false impression that he must return to a previous base.

The less familiar one is 7.01 - which applies after the ...pitcher assumes his pitching position.... If the runner attempts to return after the pitcher engages the rubber, he is properly called out, no matter what the reason for his return.

Sounds like you were helping the offense on this one. Umpires aren't supposed to do that.

JM

[radwaste50]

Originally Posted by orioles35

Nothing verbalized. Since the batter swung, I signaled "strike" and let the play develop.

Had a coach going nuts on me once because he wanted the runner who had safely stolen second to return to first. Had to repeat foul tip over and over he kept hearing the foul part. Gotta love small town coaches. I finally asked if that had been the third strike would he want the batter to be out?
He agreed he would. "Then it has to be a live ball"............and a 15 watt bulb lit just a smidge

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by PWL

Do you ever give the little "time out" signal to let everyone know that it was a foul tip and caught before you give the strike signal?

I'll bite. What's a little "time out" signal?

Do you mean brushing the back of your left hand with your right high enough for your partner to see?

Tim.

[orioles35]

My mistake. It was the defensive coach that was claiming it was foul (and dead). I corrected that in my original post.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by orioles35

My mistake. It was the defensive coach that was claiming it was foul (and dead). I corrected that in my original post.

Well......that's DIFFERENT! Never Mind.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

Do you ever give the little "time out" signal to let everyone know that it was a foul tip and caught before you give the strike signal?

What in the world is the "little time out signal?" The world is still awaiting this explanation.

All you are to do is give the "foul tip" signal and the "strike" signal. I am unfamiliar with the "little time out signal."

[LMan]

Originally Posted by bossman72

orioles,

When the foul tip happened, did you verbalize anything at all? did you say "Foul Tip!" or "Foul ball!" ??

Since a foul tip is by definition a swinging strike, there is no verbalization.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by LMan

Since a foul tip is by definition a swinging strike, there is no verbalization.

Yes, i know this. I was asking just in case orioles did it- which would lead to confusion on the field.

[BellevueUMp]

I'll toss this out to try and help answer the question about the "time out" signal. In the back of the Fed rule book, the "Mechanics" illustrations show the umpire making what appears to be a 'time out' signal (like I'm typically used to seeing a basketball player use towards the official). I was taught to signal a foul tip by brushing the palm/fingertips of one hand across the back of the other, so seeing the mechanic depicted this way was a bit confusing. I wasn't sure if this was a different mechanic or just how the one I learned was drawn. Guess I'm not crazy after all (well, not as much as I'd thought ).

[SanDiegoSteve]

I'm looking at the 2005 book (the only one I have) and it shows and describes the mechanic as "the palms of the hands glance off each other as they pass above eye level, followed by a strike call." That's a bit more like it.

It really should read "followed by a non-verbal strike signal."

That so-called "little time out signal" is what referees use for a technical foul signal in basketball, yet I have seen older FED baseball mechanic pictures depicting a similar motion for foul tip.

I have never paterned my signals after the hyserically funny pictures in the FED rule book. Play Ball is especially ROTFLMAO funny. Looks like the guy is smacking himself in the mask. What's wrong with a good point to the pitcher?