Over Rule

fonzzy07 · #1 (**permalink**) Sat May 06, 2006, 01:39pm

just had this in a game and it made me very mad. Groundball with runner on third, my player sprints home, ahead of the tag and is called safe by the homeplate umpire. The other teams coach comes out and argues. then the baseumpire comes in and calls him safe. The homeplate umpire never asked for an appeal. The homeplate ump still calls him safe. The coach pulls his players off the field while i come out to talk to the homeplate ump. the base ump says the inning is over. Not knowing all of the rules I say fine and walk away. We end up having to play extra innings as a result. Can that baseump do that.

BenedictArnold · #2 (**permalink**) Sat May 06, 2006, 01:53pm

No. And make sure you tell your assignor about this situation. They need to know stuff like this.

fonzzy07 · #3 (**permalink**) Sat May 06, 2006, 02:02pm

Is their anyway that coulda been changed. Lets say the baseumpire comes in and talkes to the homeplate ump can the plate ump then change his call.

LMan · #4 (**permalink**) Sat May 06, 2006, 03:15pm

Level of play?

bossman72 · #5 (**permalink**) Sat May 06, 2006, 03:19pm

The PU can ask the BU for help/information on a call, then reverse his OWN call (for example if F2 dropped the ball and the PU was screened and the BU saw the ball pop out). But the BU can't run in and change the call like that.

PS- edit your original post. it says PU called him safe, then the BU overrules him and calls him safe... we know what you meant, but edit it for clarity

Justme · #6 (**permalink**) Sat May 06, 2006, 04:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzzy07

just had this in a game and it made me very mad. Groundball with runner on third, my player sprints home, ahead of the tag and is called safe by the homeplate umpire. The other teams coach comes out and argues. then the baseumpire comes in and calls him safe. The homeplate umpire never asked for an appeal. The homeplate ump still calls him safe. The coach pulls his players off the field while i come out to talk to the homeplate ump. the base ump says the inning is over. Not knowing all of the rules I say fine and walk away. We end up having to play extra innings as a result. Can that baseump do that.

It shouldn't have happened as you described. Calls can be changed but only the umpire making the call should change the call. Other umpires can offer additional information but not change their partner's call.

Contact the umpire assignor for the association supplying the officials. Let him/her know what happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzzy07

Not knowing all of the rules I say fine and walk away.

Learn all of the rules.

DG · #7 (**permalink**) Sat May 06, 2006, 07:52pm

Clearly a BU with no manners and a PU with no cajones.

fonzzy07 · #8 (**permalink**) Sat May 06, 2006, 09:26pm

Originally Posted by fonzzy07
Not knowing all of the rules I say fine and walk away.

Learn all of the rules.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am working on it, this forum helps,but unless I know a rule for sure I dont feel right arguing with an official, thats why i just said okay what ever and moved on.

LMan · #9 (**permalink**) Sat May 06, 2006, 09:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzzy07

I dont feel right arguing with an official

...what the hell are you doing coaching baseball?!! My God, they'll take away your decoder ring!

kylejt · #10 (**permalink**) Sun May 07, 2006, 01:19am

Am I reading this wrong, or did both umpires call the runner safe?

How is the inning over?

umpduck11 · #11 (**permalink**) Sun May 07, 2006, 08:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMan

...what the hell are you doing coaching baseball?!! My God, they'll take away your decoder ring!

Or cut your supply of cheese !!

LilLeaguer · #12 (**permalink**) Mon May 08, 2006, 01:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justme

It shouldn't have happened as you described. Calls can be changed but only the umpire making the call should change the call. Other umpires can offer additional information but not change their partner's call.

Contact the umpire assignor for the association supplying the officials. Let him/her know what happened.

Learn all of the rules.

OBR 9.04 (c) seems to indicate that the umpire in chief (or other umpire as designated by the league) can, in the case of a disputed call, over rule the original call.

I don't know what code the OP was under, and I suspect that BU wasn't the league-designated umpire, so I doubt if this rule applies in that sitch.

(Usually a rat doesn't get this much attention, but in that spirit ...) Coach, if the game was under OBR, the appropriate rules to cite in the appeal were 9.04 (a) and 9.05 (b), which clearly give the priority on a play at HP to PU.

-LilLeaguer

BigUmp56 · #13 (**permalink**) Mon May 08, 2006, 03:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

OBR 9.04 (c) seems to indicate that the umpire in chief (or other umpire as designated by the league) can, in the case of a disputed call, over rule the original call.

I don't know what code the OP was under, and I suspect that BU wasn't the league-designated umpire, so I doubt if this rule applies in that sitch.

(Usually a rat doesn't get this much attention, but in that spirit ...) Coach, if the game was under OBR, the appropriate rules to cite in the appeal were 9.04 (a) and 9.05 (b), which clearly give the priority on a play at HP to PU.

-LilLeaguer

9.04(c) does not give the UIC the authority to over rule another umpire. The rule is in place so that should a situation arise where opposite calls are made by two umpires, the UIC can get the crew together and confer. Then, he is to act as an arbiter to make the final decision if there is still a dispute among the crew. In other words he's the tie breaker.

Tim.

LilLeaguer · #14 (**permalink**) Mon May 08, 2006, 03:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

9.04(c) does not give the UIC the authority to over rule another umpire. The rule is in place so that should a situation arise where opposite calls are made by two umpires, the UIC can get the crew together and confer. Then, he is to act as an arbiter to make the final decision if there is still a dispute among the crew. In other words he's the tie breaker.
Tim.

I don't see why the UIC cannot be one of the disputing umpires, thus triggering the opposite calls precondition.

-LilLeaguer

BigUmp56 · #15 (**permalink**) Mon May 08, 2006, 03:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

I don't see why the UIC cannot be one of the disputing umpires, thus triggering the opposite calls precondition.

-LilLeaguer

You need to look at 9.02(c)

9.02(c) If a decision is appealed, the umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision. No umpire shall criticize, seek to reverse or interfere with another umpire's decision unless asked to do so by the umpire making it.

Think of the $h1t $torm that would arise were the rules to provide for the UIC to step in and make other umpires calls, or worse yet, over turn them because he doesn't agree.

Tim.