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Tue May 09, 2006, 11:34pm
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What's the metric, then?
I would quote, but it's frankly more work than I want to do right now.
If I understand the themes/talking points of those who think the AMLU is wrong to strike, they are, generally: 1. College/high school/other good amatuer umpires can (and are) adequately replacing the AMLU guys. 2. Baseball, overall, is no worse off for the AMLU strike. 3. Since there are hundreds if not thousands of vult errrrrr fellow qualified umpires waiting in the wings to drive to Tulsa, Bakersfield, Rockford and Des Moines, the AMLU is wrong or wrongheaded to strike. 4. $15,000 is PLENTY of money for 5 months of work. The fact that the umpires have experienced a net pay cut over the life of the contract with inflation (in particular, health care costs and gasoline) is irrelevant. Any adult can live on $20 a day eating out and maintain a non-Froemming-like physique. 5. The AMLU guys all took the job knowing that MiLB thinks Scrooge's main problem was his boundless generosity. Therefore, the AMLU guys deserve to make what they make. 6. Umpiring the minor leagues is unlike brain surgery, teaching in an inner city, the Peace Corps, toting an M-60 in a combat zone or translating ancient Sanskrit. Therefore, comparing AMLU umpires to those professions is unfair, and minor league umpires don't deserve to make as much as any of those professionals. Therefore, it is ok for PBUC/MiLB to pay AAA umpires $15k a year. 7. On the other hand, umpiring in the minor leagues is unlike umpiring amatuer baseball at any level. Therefore, comparing AMLU umpires to their amatuer brothers and sisters is unfair, and there can be no just comparison for the compensation between the two groups. Therefore, it is ok for PBUC/MiLB to pay AAA umpires $15k a year. 8. On the still THIRD hand, umpiring in the minor leagues is unlike umpiring in the major leagues. Therefore, comparing AMLU umpires to their major league brethern is unfair, and there is no basis for comparison in their relative compensation packages. Therefore, it is ok for PBUC/MiLB to pay AAA umpires $15k a year. Feel free (I know I don't have to invite) to correct any unfair characterizations or add any important points I have missed. Here's the question to which I am led from MiLB/PBUC talking points six through eight above: What's the RIGHT comparison? "They are worth what PBUC will pay them" is a cop-out answer. But if those of us who support this union and its efforts to get a living wage are wrong in our analysis, tell us what the right analysis is, and support your answer with logic, please. Strikes and outs! 
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Wed May 10, 2006, 02:08am
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I think you answered your question.
5. The AMLU guys all took the job knowing that MiLB thinks Scrooge's main problem was his boundless generosity. Therefore, the AMLU guys deserve to make what they make If you go to work in the coal mines of WV, you don't get to complain about emphesyma. There are many people in America that work for sweatshop wages and don't have medical or dental. They work twelve months a year and don't cry about it. No one forced them to take the job in the Minors. Lastly and most importantly, it has been referenced here and times - the AMLU boys make more at their 'side jobs' than they earn umpiring for PBUC. So let's do the math...that 10-15,000 gets doubled and they are still unhappy. Their plight might not strike a chord in the heartland where a farmer gets by on less than that. I've said it before and you keep ignoring it...they are taking the chance on a dream. They put in the practice, hours and make huge sacrifices all in the name of a slim shot at fame and money. That sounds an awful lot like actors and musicians. In a supply and ddemand society, they get paid for the task they perform not what they are worth. Few of us think that they should get paid what they do, but we'll be damned if we will get bullied into backing 220 guys who think that they are God's gift. An awful lot of men are proving otherwise. By the way, get an almanac and see how many bench clearng brawls happened under the AMLU watch. Check out how many misdeeds and blunders occured under that watch. It will be apparent that the month of amateurs holding the fort is in pretty good company. $30K for 5 months work??? Yeah, that makes sense when the average Minor League ball player makes less than that. The umpires are not that important and AMLU guys are even less.
__________________
"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. ~Naguib Mahfouz
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Wed May 10, 2006, 06:53am
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Quote:
A big league blue starts at $80k plus per diem and perks. He flies first class, stays in great hotels, etc., etc. That's the dream. In the meantime, the AMLU guys work. More, by the way, than your asserted five months a year- spring training, fall instructional leagues, etc. So where did you come up with $30k? And how do you figure that the minor league player's salary averages less than $30k? Where do you get that figure? Are you comparing AAA players to AAA umpires? I thought we weren't allowed to do that. Strikes and outs!
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Wed May 10, 2006, 09:04am
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Inflation & Income
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Some current or former umps can elaborate but I've also heard that umps will often get special perqs like discounted or free golf and health club memberships because of minor league club's deals. I'm sure the IRS would consider this income, not that anyone in america would report it as such. And from what I understand the umps load up on the free hotel breakfast and get fed at the park, so often it's one meal a day and snacks that we're talking about with per diem. Don't have the energy (or courtroom skills!) to tackle the other points. I'll leave that to the perry masons on the board.
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Wed May 10, 2006, 03:41pm
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Inflation and income
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I'm sorry, but I just can't get there with you on the Hampton Inn breakfast bar or the dressing room fridge stocked with Snickers. $22 a day doesn't buy much in the way of healthy food in a restuarant in most markets. And forget it if you want to have (gasp!) a beer. Strikes and outs!
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Wed May 10, 2006, 04:11pm
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As for free food at the ballpark? On the Single "A" level, that is not guaranteed. Far from it. When I did get a free meal, 95% of the time it was hot dogs and a drink. I got sick of damn hot dogs. (In fact, I still haven't eaten one in years). Props to Charleston, SC, though, who served us shrimp!!! So what did we do? We slept through breakfast (admittedly not hard to do). Ate a cheap lunch (fast food) and then went out to eat at a chain-type place for supper (applebee's, etc.). Not the healthiest lifestyle. I found it ironic at the time that they (PBUC) were harping on our physical fitness (we were the first class after John McSherry's death, so there was a heightened awareness) but then gave us enough money to make eating healthy very difficult.
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Wed May 10, 2006, 05:45pm
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if it is a minority horse i hope it's a US resident OR in the game already, cuz they won't being paying for it to get to work from overseas...
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Wed May 10, 2006, 09:02pm
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Admittedly, it is difficult to eat healthy on $22 a day. I lived on five dollar breakfasts and lunch at Hardees and McDonalds while coming up. Yeah, those hotdogs get tiresome - so do nachos and local sponsor fare. My partner drove that first year and he packed a cooler full of stuff for us. We would take the cracker packets, individual ketchup and mustards, salt and pepper shakers and whatever we could get our hands on at the park, friends' places or restaurants. We ate tons of cup o' noodles and figured out fifty ways to make mac n' cheese better. We grumbled and got by without getting fat.
That said, NO ONE FORCED US TO SIGN ON AND TAKE THE JOB! We knew going in that it would be tough. Hell, most of had just finished college and knew what it was like to live that way. I ironed my clothes on the floor of the locker room. I took plenty of cold showers, slept in the car and learned to say, "Shhh, you'll wake my partner." when in a flea bag somewhere. That is part of the deal. That first season is rough - the pressure is intense and the lifestyle lacking. Anyone who signs up for the next season and complains is just a joke. Did you think things would change going to the next level? What's the adage - "Fool me once...
__________________
"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. ~Naguib Mahfouz
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Wed May 10, 2006, 09:22pm
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Quote:
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Fri May 12, 2006, 08:46pm
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Of all those in the umpire community the MLB umps know better than any one the poverty level pay scale, terrible work conditions, inordinate amount of unpaid overtime via extra inning games and the constant verbal abuse the MiLB are subjected to. Most MiLB members and supporters want to condemn the so called 'scab' who more than likely is a middleaged man of moderate income with a family to support. The $100 he earns at this level far exceeds the $40 or 50 he normally gets and all the money he gets from umpiring will end up being eaten up by the family budget. (I'm speaking generally, not universally) So the money he earns goes towards raising a family. You also have the thrill factor of umpiring a professional game in front of thousands, that's something few umpires ever have the privelege of experiencing. But the replacement is a scab and worthy of all our disdain and hatred as well as deseving of being blackballed within our community. But the MLB ump making $200 Gs is probably the only ump within our 'brotherhood' that can actually make an impact by striking. Why are they crossing the picket line(so to speak) and getting a free pass while Joe ump realizes a dream very few get to experience and is demonized for it. If anyone is a scab in this it's the fat cat umps at MLB. If you want to argue that it's not their fight then how can you argue that it's the fight of any replacement. Why isn't the MiLB demonizing the MLB for not supporting the 'brotherhood'? MLB has much more in common with MiLB than any 'amateur ump' I think referring to the replacements as vultures is ridiculus if you don't also have just as much disdain for MLB for their lack of support.
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Fri May 12, 2006, 09:48pm
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Anti-AMLU talking point number 10- It's the MLB umpires' fault. After all, if they were making comparable to what AAA guys make, nobody would want the job. And if THEY went on strike, why what a fine kettle of fish baseball would be in! Forget, of course, that striking in the middle of their contract without good legal grounds (and I don't think this qualifies) would give MLB THE perfect excuse to fire them. And if you don't think they would, I suggest you look closely back at the last 30 year history of baseball and umpire labor relations. Heck, look back at the last 100 years of baseball/labor relations. You may cuss unions, you may cuss player and umpire salaries. The fact is, folks, baseball is a profitable business, on the whole. Not every team and every owner makes money, but most do, or billionares wouldn't keep buying clubs. I didn't like Curt Flood because I was and am a Phillies fan. But he was, in the end, right. And so are the AMLU guys. We can live with the current system, for fans, players and umpires, or we can go back to Charles Comiskey. What is it, precisely, that you would have WUA do? Strike too? (Bad pun.) You can't have it both ways. You can't say on the one hand that MiLB and MLB are different worlds with different conditions and then turn around and blame the MLB umpires for going to work. The MLB guys starts- STARTS- at more than 5 times the maximum a AAA umpire makes. My point, such as it was, was in response to WWTB or DIV2 or the numerous other people on this board who think that AMLU is wrong, at least tactically to strike because of the hundreds if not thousands of other, just as qualified umpires out there just itching to take their places. Argue logically. Please. Leave the bait and switch off of this board. Strikes and outs!
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Fri May 12, 2006, 11:10pm
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Quote:
The recent cry that the media has finally taken notice is laughable. A few local beat reporters are looking to make a name for themselves. I never realized that umpires gave so much creedence to what a skipper or player said about the calls. Yet, these same jokers who call themselves professional are posting stories on their site extolling how smart the skippers and players must be. So let me ask you this AMLU gang...when you walk onto the field and the skipper says, "Wow, we had a crew here last series that was just brutal. The zone was all over the place and they didn't know where they should be to make certain calls." Do you ignore them and accept the fact that most of them don't even know a basic balk when they see it, much less umpire mechanics? That's what I was taught to do, but apparently you find that ripping apart another crews' job is acceptable and professional. The beauty of this is that you will be out there some day and tell that same skipper that he doesn't know what he's talking about when he challenges you or your partner(s).
__________________
"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. ~Naguib Mahfouz
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Sat May 13, 2006, 09:47am
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WWTB,
Dude...if you are going to f'n quote me (as you did in your last post on this thread)...at least make sure its a quote from me. Please don't attribute quotes to me that aren't mine. That's the second time you screwed up a quote from me. First, you attempted to say that I said 1979 wasn't a strike. Now your putting a whole quote on your post and saying that I originally posted it.
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Sat May 13, 2006, 07:38pm
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Oh, get over yourself...you sound like the other guy and both of you use noms de net that imply legal expertise. Yes, I attributed to the wrong barrister - there, mea culpa. I suggest you go back and read the post about 1979 again and then make your apology.
__________________
"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. ~Naguib Mahfouz
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Sat May 13, 2006, 10:50pm
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The First Thing We Do . . .
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I don't need to imply anything. I yam what I yam. Even your "apology" seethes with conceit, dude. Pepper your posts with some more Latin. It makes you sound much cooler. Strikes and outs!
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