Any Other Way?

DG · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 24, 2006, 08:46pm

Wow, that's a tough one. In a MS game I would be inclined to do-over, if both books have the same info and coaches are reasonable. Above MS I would expect the team scorekeeper to be on their toes and inform the manager that PU thinks there are two outs instead of one.

I don't see how PU could lose track of the number of outs, especially if there have not been any yet.

bossman72 · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 24, 2006, 08:47pm

You just gotta eat it.... and it's a tough one to swallow.

DG · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 24, 2006, 11:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWL

Why should the umpire know the number of outs for a team's sake? I know we should know from a common sense stand point. However, we shouldn't be the ones the team goes to confirm the number of outs. If I'm unsure myself, I ask someone who I know knows for sure.

Simply amazing!

UmpJM · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 24, 2006, 11:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWL

If I'm unsure myself, I ask someone who I know knows for sure.

PWL,

Now I'm just a poor, dumb coach, so some of the intricacies of the art of umpiring remain somewhat elusive to me. For example, I can't for the life of me think of whom you could possibly be referring to in the statement quoted above.

JM

SanDiegoSteve · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 25, 2006, 12:31am

Okay, I'll clear it up for PWL (I can't believe I'm doing this). PWL is also a baseball player, and I do believe he was speaking from a player's perspective here, as in "when I'm playing, I ask someone other than an umpire."

In case he is speaking as an umpire, he probably means asking the official scorer or somebody keeping book. Someone other than the umpire, who in the above illustration, had no idea what was going on.

The players and coaches are ultimately responsible for the knowledge of game situations.

JM, we do understand the heartbreak of your unfortunate disease.

UmpJM · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 25, 2006, 12:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

JM, we do understand the heartbreak of your unfortunate disease.

S.D. Steve,

As I have said before, "Hey, it's embarrassing, and we're sure not out there spreading the word!" I appreciate your compassion

.

While I also applaud the generous spirit evident in your interpretation of PWL's remarks regarding the primary subject of this thread, having reread them in their entirety, I believe you are mistaken. I'm pretty sure he is speaking from the perspective of an umpire. I'm just not sure what sport.

JM

BigUmp56 · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 25, 2006, 07:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWL

Why should the umpire know the number of outs for a team's sake? I know we should know from a common sense stand point. However, we shouldn't be the ones the team goes to confirm the number of outs. If I'm unsure myself, I ask someone who I know knows for sure.

I guess those little things like IFF situations, uncaught third strikes, timing plays, etc.... are of little consequence........

TFF

Tim.

Rich · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 25, 2006, 07:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I guess those little things like IFF situations, uncaught third strikes, timing plays, etc.... are of little consequence........

TFF

Tim.

Yeah, really.

One thing I *don't* do is relay the count when working the bases. It's the plate umpire's job (ultimately) to keep the count and in the rare chance I have it wrong, I'd rather let the plate umpire give it to the players and teams.

mcrowder · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 25, 2006, 08:19am

The ONLY time I will show the count as BU is if PU is asking me to confirm his count (our "signal" for this is to make eye contact and PU wiggles his fingers - BU then briefly shows the count in front of his chest). PU is still in charge of the count, but if PU has need to ask, BU is there for him.

PWL - take a little care to make note of when you are responding as a player. I'm sure that even you can understand that your comment above sounded WAY off if you were speaking as an umpire.

David B · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 25, 2006, 08:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Yeah, really.

One thing I *don't* do is relay the count when working the bases. It's the plate umpire's job (ultimately) to keep the count and in the rare chance I have it wrong, I'd rather let the plate umpire give it to the players and teams.

I don't keep the count either on the bases. If F1 will ask, I walk up a few steps and ask PU what's the count? ( If by chance I dont' know)

Thansk
David

SanDiegoSteve · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 25, 2006, 11:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

I don't keep the count either on the bases. If F1 will ask, I walk up a few steps and ask PU what's the count? ( If by chance I dont' know)

Thansk
David

I only care what the count is as the BU when there are either 3 balls or 2 strikes, or both.

RPatrino · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 25, 2006, 01:15pm

We had almost this same sitch in another thread. If there is one defensive player still left on the field, I feel you can legally bring them all back and continue. Now, if the defensive team has left the field when you discover you only have 2 outs, I think you are stuck.

Now, while I agree that the teams are ultimately responsible for knowing the number of outs, the umpires need to be on top of this also. In this case, as I read it, no one brought the question of the number of outs to the umpires attention until the teams had changed sides between innings. This is clearly a team foul-up, in my eyes.

Bob P.

mcrowder · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 25, 2006, 01:40pm

If you discover you've sent the teams off the field with only 2 outs, EVEN IF everyone has already switched sides, you MUST fix this. The deadline for fixing this is NOT when the defense leaves the field - it's when a pitch has been thrown in the next half inning. This is not an "appeal" (which WOULD expire once the defense leaves the field).