Home Run Question

[ddb]

FED Rules

R1. Batter hits high fly ball to center field. R1 hesitates half way between first and second base watching/waiting to determine if the fly ball will be caught or will clear the fence. Fly Ball clears the fence but no home run signal given by UIC or Base Umpire. Batter/runner catches up with R1 and 'slightly' passes R1 but corrects action and falls in behind R1 before R1 or batter/runner touches 2nd base. Should the batter/runner have been called out for passing R1??

Was not working the game nor did I see the play but was told 2nd hand by a fan about the play...

Rules reference for decision?

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by ddb

FED Rules

R1. Batter hits high fly ball to center field. R1 hesitates half way between first and second base watching/waiting to determine if the fly ball will be caught or will clear the fence. Fly Ball clears the fence but no home run signal given by UIC or Base Umpire. Batter/runner catches up with R1 and 'slightly' passes R1 but corrects action and falls in behind R1 before R1 or batter/runner touches 2nd base. Should the batter/runner have been called out for passing R1??

Was not working the game nor did I see the play but was told 2nd hand by a fan about the play...

Rules reference for decision?

This ties for silliest "question" ever posted.
Yes, BR should be declared out.
The "rule reference": try the one that says: runner is out for passing an unobstructed preceeding runner [different #'s in different codes, but the language is there in all].
Silliness:
1: it just recently happened in a MLB game, and the runner was called out: JUST BY COINCIDENCE, it also just happened in a FED game where you "weren't there but got told by a fan"; and
2: "slightly passed"? ... kinda like "slightly" tagged [or pregnant], dontcha think?
SHEESH!

[bossman72]

Also note: new FED interp.

If this happens for the 3rd out, other runners will be allowed to continue and score.

In OBR, it would be a time play. All runners that scored before the pass would score and others would not.

[mcrowder]

Actually, there may be something in that "slightly" passes. Envision two track stars - one "passes" the other, but they still overlap. This is not an out. The passing player must COMPLETELY pass the passed player for this to be an out.

One extreme example was brought up a couple of months back of the runners hugging each other and spinning... at no point was the entire body of the succeeding runner ahead of the entire body of the preceding runner... thus no out.

[RPatrino]

Ha, you've got to be kidding me? Now we have "overlapping" players. There must be something, somewhere forbidding such nonsense!!! What's the world coming to.

Next we'll be having them joining hands and skipping around the bases, of course, never actually passing each other!!

( I must be getting stir crazy, I need back on the field)

Bob P.

[SanDiegoSteve]

CB,

It is a silly question for most of us, but seeing as it was ddb's first post, ya think you could cut him just a little slack? I'm sure he had no idea of the wolves who were waiting to pounce upon his innocent query.

[DG]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Also note: new FED interp.

If this happens for the 3rd out, other runners will be allowed to continue and score.

In OBR, it would be a time play. All runners that scored before the pass would score and others would not.

Interp number please.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by DG

Interp number please.

SITUATION 14: In the bottom of the seventh inning, the visiting team leads 6-4. With the bases loaded and two outs, the batter hits a grand slam home run over the left field fence. B6, in his excitement, passes R3, who started the play on first base. At the time B6 passed R3, only R1 had touched home plate.

RULING: When a batter hits a home run, each runner on base is awarded four bases, or home. While B6 is out for passing an unobstructed preceding runner, his third out is not a force out since he had touched first base. Therefore, three runs will score and the home team will win, 7-6. (8-3-3a, 9-1-1)


Tim.

[DG]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

SITUATION 14: In the bottom of the seventh inning, the visiting team leads 6-4. With the bases loaded and two outs, the batter hits a grand slam home run over the left field fence. B6, in his excitement, passes R3, who started the play on first base. At the time B6 passed R3, only R1 had touched home plate.

RULING: When a batter hits a home run, each runner on base is awarded four bases, or home. While B6 is out for passing an unobstructed preceding runner, his third out is not a force out since he had touched first base. Therefore, three runs will score and the home team will win, 7-6. (8-3-3a, 9-1-1)


Tim.

FED has changed what appears to be a simple timing play to me. With two outs the runners are likely running, not watching, so it's not likely to be something we will see.

[ddb]

Sorry to have insulted you CB with a silly question. I did not know a play such as this had just occurred in a MLB game, I guess it is just bad timing on my part. I agree that "slightly passed" is goofy but that was how it was described to me and I agree it is like being sort of pregnant.

I know the right call that should have made the instant the batter/runner "slightly passed" R1...The batter/runner would have been called out and R1 would have scored but my fan friend did not think my call was right.

So, you are probably right about the question being a silly one but I just wanted to hear some other opinions about the "slightly passed" R1. The person who told me this said the batter/runner and R1 were about shoulder to shoulder and I told him the batter/runner is still out.

[bossman72]

DG-

Check out 2006 case book 9.1.1 M

Yes, i also agree, it's a stupid rule

[ggk]

just to be clear - Fed Rules all runs count even if the passing is the 3rd out and in OBR it is a time play? - only the runners who have crossed home before the passing would score.
thanks.

[DG]

Originally Posted by bossman72

DG-

Check out 2006 case book 9.1.1 M

Yes, i also agree, it's a stupid rule

This "change" in FED interpretation for 2006 is duly noted in the 2006 BRD. Casebook play 9.1.1 M reads differently in the 2005 casebook. BRD also notes that this is a timing play in NCAA and OBR.

I was not aware of the change, but I am now.

[tmp44]

Originally Posted by ggk

just to be clear - Fed Rules all runs count even if the passing is the 3rd out and in OBR it is a time play? - only the runners who have crossed home before the passing would score.
thanks.

All runs but the person who is out because of the passing. In OBR, timing play as you describe.

Question for the crowd...based on the FED interp as above, say bases are loaded, BR hits the granny. R2 passes R3 around 3rd base, because R3 was tagging from third. Two Outs. R2 is out and all count 3 runs (R3, R1, BR), right?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tmp44

All runs but the person who is out because of the passing. In OBR, timing play as you describe.

Question for the crowd...based on the FED interp as above, say bases are loaded, BR hits the granny. R2 passes R3 around 3rd base, because R3 was tagging from third. Two Outs. R2 is out and all count 3 runs (R3, R1, BR), right?

I'd say only R3's run counts. Runners behind the third out still cannot score. NOte that if the third out is a force-out, no runs score, even if the runners are "entitled" to home on the award. I'd use the same logic on your play -- that is, the FED's interp only changes the "timing" aspect of the scoring rule, not any of the other provisions.

Given the FED's recent interp, though, I'm prepared to be wrong.