Fact Vs. Fiction

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I have to take issue with you here, Steve.

JRutledge did not "misspeak", he intentionally said something that was blatantly untrue for the purpose of making people look bad. Please do not give him the benefit of the doubt, he has shown quite emphatically that he does not deserve it.

Joe

Not only did I say something that is true, look at all the comments that have been made since. You have guys left and right ripping the AMLU and the umpires all over the place. According to you no one with an opposing view point said anything negative against the union or their members. You also said that no one used any inflammatory language which btw is a very "subjective" opinion what is inflammatory or not. Guys have been called dumb for "walking off their jobs" by those that have an opposing point of view to the union on this issue. I have not read any of your comments about how "inflammatory" those comments were. I guess you just will have to live in keep hoping that what you feel is true. If you keep saying it, maybe on day it will come true.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not only did I say something that is true, look at all the comments that have been made since. You have guys left and right ripping the AMLU and the umpires all over the place. According to you no one with an opposing view point said anything negative against the union or their members. You also said that no one used any inflammatory language which btw is a very "subjective" opinion what is inflammatory or not. Guys have been called dumb for "walking off their jobs" by those that have an opposing point of view to the union on this issue. I have not read any of your comments about how "inflammatory" those comments were. I guess you just will have to live in keep hoping that what you feel is true. If you keep saying it, maybe on day it will come true.

Peace

Where? Show me the post where someone called AMLU umpires "dumb." I have searched and searched, and can't find the posts to which you are referring. You're making stuff up again, Mr. Jeff. I have seen it pointed out that they walked off their jobs, but nobody called them "dumb."

And even if they had, what is "dumb" compared to a vile, nauseating word like "scab?" Scab is on the level of, say, "scumbag," or "snotrag." Using the word in every sentence like they have been doing just makes me ill. Can you show me the same hostility from the anti-strikers? Hell no, you can't. Once again you have skirted the issue with illogical and false statements (unless you can actually produce one these supposed "inflammatory" comments, that is).

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Where? Show me the post where someone called AMLU umpires "dumb." I have searched and searched, and can't find the posts to which you are referring. You're making stuff up again, Mr. Jeff. I have seen it pointed out that they walked off their jobs, but nobody called them "dumb."

And even if they had, what is "dumb" compared to a vile, nauseating word like "scab?" Scab is on the level of, say, "scumbag," or "snotrag." Using the word in every sentence like they have been doing just makes me ill. Can you show me the same hostility from the anti-strikers? Hell no, you can't. Once again you have skirted the issue with illogical and false statements (unless you can actually produce one these supposed "inflammatory" comments, that is).

CHIRP CHIRP

[Thatballzlow]

For your perusal:

By Baseball America Staff
April 20, 2006

• Double-A Arkansas shortstop Brandon Wood hit two homers, but was more focused on a foul-tip call in the ninth inning of the Travelers' 8-6 loss to Tulsa on Wednesday.

With a runner on second, Wood struck out to end the game on a pitch that he and Arkansas manager Ty Boykin argued was foul-tipped. Tulsa catcher Chris Ianetta dropped the ball, then tagged Wood and the game was over.

"Yeah, I foul-tipped it," Wood told the Arkansas Democrat Gazette.

Adding to that controversy was Wood's at-bat in the eighth, when Boykin--who was coaching third base--called for time to check if the white lettering on Tulsa reliever Josh Newman's glove was legal. The third-base umpire called time as Newman released the pitch, but the home-plate ump didn't acknowledge it.

The called strike was allowed to stand after the umpires conferred, even though the home plate umpire apparently told Wood otherwise.

"The thing that bothers me, which doesn't make any sense, the guy behind the plate tells Wood, 'That doesn't count.' Then he goes back up there and he goes, '0-1,' " Boykin told the paper.

"I'm not bashing anybody. If you make a mistake, you make a mistake and it's going to happen. But I just can't deal with calls that are made that there's no rational reason behind it."

Lost in all the debate was the performance of Tulsa first baseman Joe Koshansky, who went 4-for-4 with two homers and a pair of doubles. Koshansky, a sixth-round pick out of Virginia in 2004, is 8-for-17 (.470) in the series.

The two teams meet again tonight as the Drillers have a chance to sweep the five-game series.

• In other random replacement umpire complaints, the Colorado Springs Gazette ran a story today with some scathing comments from players:

"We're only two weeks in and you can see how frustrating it's getting already. The players' jobs are on the line, and we're dealing with some umpires who have trouble at this level."--Triple-A Tucson lefthander Randy Choate.

"We hold the players to a high standard. We have to hold the umpires to a high standard, too. Some of these calls they're missing are just obvious."--Triple-A Colorado Springs manager Tom Runnels.

"The integrity of the game is being compromised, all so minor league baseball can squeeze some nickels and dimes out of the umpires. Minor league baseball ought to be ashamed at the product they're putting on the field. If there are good-faith negotiations going on, I don't need to be commenting in the press because it wouldn't be productive. But I understand there are no negotiations, and that's not fair to us."--Tucson righthander Kevin Jarvis.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Where? Show me the post where someone called AMLU umpires "dumb." I have searched and searched, and can't find the posts to which you are referring. You're making stuff up again, Mr. Jeff. I have seen it pointed out that they walked off their jobs, but nobody called them "dumb."

And even if they had, what is "dumb" compared to a vile, nauseating word like "scab?" Scab is on the level of, say, "scumbag," or "snotrag." Using the word in every sentence like they have been doing just makes me ill. Can you show me the same hostility from the anti-strikers? Hell no, you can't. Once again you have skirted the issue with illogical and false statements (unless you can actually produce one these supposed "inflammatory" comments, that is).

I did not say that anyone used the specific word "dumb” as a word for word quote. Actually that is my interpretation of what many comments have been made by those that think the union is making a mistake. There is a thread that has called the union members “classless.” There are many comments about how the union members were not "smart" to sign the contract that just expired. There have been comments that union members should only work with a contract and expecting a contact is not very smart. There are even people that are suggesting that “The rest of us do not work with a contract, why should you?” There are also comments like, “They knew what they were getting themselves into when they decided to become a Minor League Umpire.” To me that adds up to, “You were too dumb to realize what the money was, you signed the contract anyway and you cannot get mad when others decide to work for the same money you were given and received for years.” If anything, that is very inflammatory when the people you are talking about have made great sacrifices to follow a dream.

Now, I never used the word inflammatory as a tit for tat type of debate. I used the term to illustrate that there are bigger issues than the use of one word. Now Joe used the term inflammatory to tell all of us how smart he is and that we should not debate this issue with words that offend him (but he still stays in the debate ). I think Joe was being overly dramatic to get upset over a term that is not only used here, but is used on the AMLU website and other literature dealing with any union dispute if you actually do some research. If you go back and read the statements, you would realize that. As usual you read into the statements and then make a mountain out of a molehill. The word "dumb" that I referenced is my interpretation of the comments just like JoJo's comments about the term being inflammatory. I do not live in PC California where everything is offensive where everything said will offend someone. I live in the Midwest where people are rough and are used to hard times and had to deal with living in some tough conditions. The term "scab" might get more laughs here than where you live. One of the reasons the state and area I live in are union hotbeds where a lot of people belong to unions in many professions. I have seen people get upset all the time over a simple comment about race and it is common in my official's associations for people to tell racial jokes that deal with people's heritage and by into a lot of stereotypes. I am also not talking about Black and white jokes either. If being called a scumbag gets your panties in a bunch, then do not include me in that discussion of those being offended. You would have to say a hell of a lot more to me and many others that I run with to be offended by that term or anything like it.

Now, if you do not want to have the discussion because someone uses a term that offends you, then leave the discussion. Just do not whine about it because things are going in a direction you do not like. Grow some sack man (I am sorry are you offended now?)

Peace

[MrB]

So that I have it straight, a team that is about to be swept in 5 is unhappy with the umpires. They are unhappy with everything probably.

And Colo Springs and Tucson, both of wich are at the bottom of their respective divisions and near the bottom in average attendance in the PCL are also not pleased with the umpiring.

See a trend?

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Now, I never used the word inflammatory as a tit for tat type of debate. I used the term to illustrate that there are bigger issues than the use of one word. Now Joe used the term inflammatory to tell all of us how smart he is and that we should not debate this issue with words that offend him (but he still stays in the debate ).

I think Joe was being overly dramatic to get upset over a term that is not only used here, but is used on the AMLU website and other literature dealing with any union dispute if you actually do some research. If you go back and read the statements, you would realize that. As usual you read into the statements and then make a mountain out of a molehill. The word "dumb" that I referenced is my interpretation of the comments just like JoJo's comments about the term being inflammatory. I do not live in PC California where everything is offensive where everything said will offend someone. I live in the Midwest where people are rough and are used to hard times and had to deal with living in some tough conditions. The term "scab" might get more laughs here than where you live. One of the reasons the state and area I live in are union hotbeds where a lot of people belong to unions in many professions. I have seen people get upset all the time over a simple comment about race and it is common in my official's associations for people to tell racial jokes that deal with people's heritage and by into a lot of stereotypes. I am also not talking about Black and white jokes either. If being called a scumbag gets your panties in a bunch, then do not include me in that discussion of those being offended. You would have to say a hell of a lot more to me and many others that I run with to be offended by that term or anything like it.

Now, if you do not want to have the discussion because someone uses a term that offends you, then leave the discussion. Just do not whine about it because things are going in a direction you do not like. Grow some sack man (I am sorry are you offended now?)

Peace

I have lost count how many imes you have this sort of thing and how many times I have explained that I am not personally offended or upset by the word 'scab'.

I have explained over and over and over that many people will not listen to a speaker who uses words like that. I have explained repeatedly that a respectful and reasoned argument would have more effect.

Mr JRutledge, why do you continually say things that are not true?

Joe

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Now, I never used the word inflammatory as a tit for tat type of debate. I used the term to illustrate that there are bigger issues than the use of one word. Now Joe used the term inflammatory to tell all of us how smart he is and that we should not debate this issue with words that offend him (but he still stays in the debate ).

I think Joe was being overly dramatic to get upset over a term that is not only used here, but is used on the AMLU website and other literature dealing with any union dispute if you actually do some research. If you go back and read the statements, you would realize that. As usual you read into the statements and then make a mountain out of a molehill. The word "dumb" that I referenced is my interpretation of the comments just like JoJo's comments about the term being inflammatory. I do not live in PC California where everything is offensive where everything said will offend someone. I live in the Midwest where people are rough and are used to hard times and had to deal with living in some tough conditions. The term "scab" might get more laughs here than where you live. One of the reasons the state and area I live in are union hotbeds where a lot of people belong to unions in many professions. I have seen people get upset all the time over a simple comment about race and it is common in my official's associations for people to tell racial jokes that deal with people's heritage and by into a lot of stereotypes. I am also not talking about Black and white jokes either. If being called a scumbag gets your panties in a bunch, then do not include me in that discussion of those being offended. You would have to say a hell of a lot more to me and many others that I run with to be offended by that term or anything like it.

Now, if you do not want to have the discussion because someone uses a term that offends you, then leave the discussion. Just do not whine about it because things are going in a direction you do not like. Grow some sack man (I am sorry are you offended now?)

Peace

I have lost count how many times you have said this sort of thing and how many times I have explained that I am not personally offended or upset by the word 'scab'.

I have explained over and over and over that many people will not listen to a speaker who uses words like that. I have explained repeatedly that a respectful and reasoned argument would have more effect.

Mr JRutledge, why do you continually say things that are not true?

Joe

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

Just to make a point, if your not offended? How can your be for certain that other people think the same way as you? What do you suggest they use, "jolly good fellows"? It would seem to me that this is classic case of "have your cake and eat it, too". All these "scabs" are doing is being self serving and nothing more. They don't have anything to gain but a few extra bucks and the privilege to say they umpired a pro baseball game. They are just silly little pawns in PBUC's attempt to keep as much cash in their grubby little paws as possible. Hear me now and believe later when I say the players, owners, and MLB will not let this thing go as long as most people anticipate. This thing just started, so give it a little chance to play out before everyone thinks the walls have started to crumble down.

I am relatively certain that continued use of the "N" word would offend Rutledge, as well it should, therefore nobody uses it in conversation, which these boards are in principle.

PWL, you are the example that I used, do to the offense you took by my innocent use of the word "retarded" to describe a bad baseball rule.

Rutledge, I am not offended by any of those words, however I can understand why some would be. I have plenty sack, Jack, so jump back.

Once again, you couldn't make it through an entire post without turning it personal against me. You still can't find any language which can compare with the word "scab" in any posts from the union opposition. Saying that the umpires would be smart to come back to work is not name calling.

Find one quote, just one, and Joe and I will gladly drop it like it's hot.

[Armadillo_Blue]

Originally Posted by Thatballzlow

For your perusal:

By Baseball America Staff
April 20, 2006

• Double-A Arkansas shortstop Brandon Wood hit two homers, but was more focused on a foul-tip call in the ninth inning of the Travelers' 8-6 loss to Tulsa on Wednesday.

With a runner on second, Wood struck out to end the game on a pitch that he and Arkansas manager Ty Boykin argued was foul-tipped. Tulsa catcher Chris Ianetta dropped the ball, then tagged Wood and the game was over.

"Yeah, I foul-tipped it," Wood told the Arkansas Democrat Gazette.

How do you drop a foul tip????

Kyle

[SanDiegoSteve]

Here are a few quick questions:

1. Do you think the minor league players, managers, and fans would rather not be playing right now, out of respect for the umpires?

2. Do you think they would rather say "no, we will sit out along side the umpires until they get what they want!!!!" ?

3. Or would they rather do as they are doing now, playing and enjoying their games and putting up with less than ideal umpiring, and not giving a faretheewell about the AMLU?

(the correct answer is #3)

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

I love the fact that without this strike only a few simpletons would ever give creedence to what a player or coach says. Being questioned by them at any level - especially after a game - is sad.

I have read countless threads that tell of a coach who blasts or praises an umpire. Most of us learned long ago that both comments mean the same thing - little.

So far, all we keep seeing or arguments over the same things that they wrangled over before the strike. Strike zone consistency, foul balls and the like...wow, it'll be any day now that the cavalry comes in to save the day.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I have lost count how many times you have said this sort of thing and how many times I have explained that I am not personally offended or upset by the word 'scab'.

I have explained over and over and over that many people will not listen to a speaker who uses words like that. I have explained repeatedly that a respectful and reasoned argument would have more effect.

Mr JRutledge, why do you continually say things that are not true?

Joe

If you are not offended then why do you continually use the word "inflammatory" when someone uses the word "scab?"

If this is not at all true, you sure keep trying to prove to me that no one on the opposite side of the union has said anything "inflammatory."

Peace