Out of play on 3-1 move (FED)

[BigUmp56]

Dave:

I believe that you and Steve are discussing two different moves. The move that Steve is talking about, which is covered by the NAPBL is commonly refferred to as the "jab step."


J/R


“Jab" Step (of the pivot foot): In cases of a right-handed pitcher throwing to first, or a left-handed pitcher throwing to third, or any pitcher throwing to second, a pitcher can take a "jab" or "stutter" step with his pivot foot before stepping to the base with his free foot. The motion of the "stutter" step and the resulting step of the free foot must be fluid and continuous; if the two motions are not continuous, there is a balk. Of course, the latter step must bring the free foot at, and nearer to, the pickoff base.

So, on the jab step the pitcher is still considered to be engaged as I understand it and must complete the throw to first. Now what I think your talking about is the "wheel" move where the free foot for a right handed pitcher lands toward third and then the turn is made to first. This would disengage the pitcher and a feign to first would now be legal.


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

You are correct Tim. I misread the NAPBL interpretation. But in FED, he is still considered on his plate on the wheel play.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Dave:

I believe that you and Steve are discussing two different moves. The move that Steve is talking about, which is covered by the NAPBL is commonly refferred to as the "jab step."


J/R


“Jab" Step (of the pivot foot): In cases of a right-handed pitcher throwing to first, or a left-handed pitcher throwing to third, or any pitcher throwing to second, a pitcher can take a "jab" or "stutter" step with his pivot foot before stepping to the base with his free foot. The motion of the "stutter" step and the resulting step of the free foot must be fluid and continuous; if the two motions are not continuous, there is a balk. Of course, the latter step must bring the free foot at, and nearer to, the pickoff base.

So, on the jab step the pitcher is still considered to be engaged as I understand it and must complete the throw to first. Now what I think your talking about is the "wheel" move where the free foot for a right handed pitcher lands toward third and then the turn is made to first. This would disengage the pitcher and a feign to first would now be legal.


Tim.

I think you're right, Tim.

At first, I thought Steve was citing something that specifically had to do with the 3-1 move. I was thinking, "Dang! I don't ever recall reading that." But now I see that you're correct - his citation is only addressing the "jab step."

So, Tim, do you disagree with the FED ruling as stated in casebook play 6.1.5.

Also, I notice that Steve's citation of FED 6-2-4 SITUATION C does not jive, verbatim, with my 2006 version of that caseplay.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

Also, I notice that Steve's citation of FED 6-2-4 SITUATION C does not jive, verbatim, with my 2006 version of that caseplay.

David,

I was paraphrasing the ruling, I didn't quote it word-for-word.

Here is what it says in my 2005 book (I don't have the 2006):

"He might, while he is on his plate, step toward the occupied third and feint a throw, and then turn to step toward first and throw there with or without disengaging the pitcher's plate. If F1 steps and feints to first, he must first disengage the pitcher's plate or he is guilty of a balk."

[SanDiegoSteve]

Jim Evans says that the pitcher must break contact with the rubber with the pivot foot on the feint to 3rd on the 3rd to 1st move:

"On the "trick 3rd to 1st" move used by the righthander, the umpire should be especially alert for two criteria:
(1)
the pitcher may not break the back plane of the rubber with his free foot before attempting the feint to 3rd; and
(2)
in his feint to 3rd, he must break contact from the rubber with his pivot foot.
Breaking the plane would be a balk in violation of 8.01(a) and failure to break contact would be a balk in violation of 8.01(c)...not a direct step from the rubber ("while touching his plate")."

I don't see that in the rule 8.05(c) Case Book comments. It says you can't feint to third, and in practically the same motion, wheel and throw to first. It prohibits this because it is practically impossible to step directly to first. But it is possible to feint to third, in contact with the rubber, then maintain contact and step and throw to first. Two separate steps directly toward bases, yet not disengaging the runner.

I will do further research and come back later. I am more confused than I was yesterday, that's for sure.

[UmpJM]

Dave (et al),

It is my understanding that in all rules codes other than FED, a pitcher who tries the "fake to 3B & make a move to 1B" must break contact with the rubber on the feint to 3B or he has balked.

However, under FED rules only, a pitcher is allowed to keep his foot in contact with the rubber on the feint to 3B and then pivot and step & throw to 1B and it is NOT a balk.

So, under FED, if the F1 maintains contact & throws the ball out of play on the move to 1B, runners are awarded one base. If the F1 drags his foot off the rubber & then throws out of play on the throw to 1B, runner(s) are awarded 2 bases.

Now I have no idea why the FED folks have chosen to institute this daring "innovation" in the rules - personally, I wonder if the folks responsible for some of the FED rulings have ever actually seen a baseball game - but, it's their rules & I suppose they can make them whatever they want.

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

According the MLBUM, the pitcher has to break contact before throwing to first, and according to Evans, before feinting to third.

If J/R has something different I'm going to scream!!!

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

According the MLBUM, the pitcher has to break contact before throwing to first, and according to Evans, before feinting to third.

If J/R has something different I'm going to scream!!!

Steve,

I believe JEA & the MLBUM say exactly the same thing. Namely, that during the feint to 3B and prior to initiating the move to 1B, the F1 must break contact with the rubber or he is properly balked on the continuing move to 1B. Same in NCAA. FED's "a little different". See the BRD #362.

JM