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Thu Mar 02, 2006, 03:59pm
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I wish you guys the best of luck, but if it doesn't work out, just understand that to many it is just a game and it will be played with or without any single one of us. No hard feelings from me to who ever works them.
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Thu Mar 02, 2006, 04:04pm
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MrB,
Thanks. I understand your perspective. You are right, to many, it is just a game. To others it is a career, and a livelyhood. One that many sacrifices have been made for. All to see how unappreciated we are by our bosses, and the game. A game in which we are trusted to uphold the integrity of.
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Thu Mar 02, 2006, 04:46pm
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Quote:
To me, a career is something you can do to make a living throughout your life. Once you get hired by MLB you have a career. Until then, it's something less, I'm afraid, and this is what MiLB is hanging its hat on.
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Thu Mar 02, 2006, 04:59pm
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Quote:
As far as a career. This is a career, by definition: a. A chosen pursuit; a profession or occupation. b. The general course or progression of one's working life or one's professional achievements: Would you say that a person in AAA with 13 years of experience, had not persued, and been involved in a career? You need not do something for your entire life for it to be considered a career, as you have stated. You are correct though, that is what MiLB is probably hanging their hat on.
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Thu Mar 02, 2006, 07:05pm
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I tried to stay away... Two quotes for the price of one:
"Thanks. I understand your perspective. You are right, to many, it is just a game. To others it is a career, and a livelyhood. One that many sacrifices have been made for. All to see how unappreciated we are by our bosses, and the game. A game in which we are trusted to uphold the integrity of." I agree with Rich. That is a pretty sanctimonious pose you are striking. The game is bigger than the player or umpire. The fact that you are asking others to not work those games in your stead is ironic. I thought that the game was so important. Don't the fans and players deserve the chance to see it played? Sure, I go to the park and watch the umpires, but not many others do. Kindly rephrase that positioning statement before it makes the press. You are there to do your job as arbiters, not to represent the league. "Pay us according to our expertise and time." They are paying you for your expertise and time! Your value to the MiLB is not as great as you assume. All of us believe that we should receive higher dividends for our investment. For the sake of argument though, why is your time more important than the guy who is struggling to make ends meet with his nine to five? He buys the best gear he can afford, attends the clinics and training to perform at his peak. He gets done working and sacrifices time with the kids and spouse, so he can earn a few extra dollars on the local ball field. He comes home tired as a dog and gets no benefit other than the check. His expertise may be equal to many in A or even AA ball. His time is lost to family and friends because of his passion and desire to keep his assignor happy. Shouldn't he be treated better? If he and a group of the best umpires in his area consciously decide to refuse to work more games, should they implore others not to scramble for those coveted contests? Most everyone agrees that you should get paid more, but your arguments are becoming absurd. Conditions in the Minor League are better than many D1 facilities. I've changed in closets and at my car because they lacked respect for umpires locker room conditions. Did you pay for your equipment? If I bounce a guy at the beginning of the season, I don't worry about what his punishment was. If he acts up improperly, I'll do it again and again. The threats made on officials in the MiLB is no greater than what we are witnessing on the nightly news or VideoXposed of your choice. Someone asked what sort of nominal increase is acceptable. If MiLB is offering $100 a month and (according to wire stories on ESPN, CBS and ABC) the union is asking for 25-35% increases it seems you may need to soften your resolve. If they have to lay off umpire field supervisors and staff, why would you think they can reach deeper for you? Again, I hope that they can toss $500 a month more to you but it may be unrealistic. Bargain for the next year and start proving your importance and worth. Otherwise, those GMs may start dialing the locals soon. That contract will look pretty inviting when you have to start bagging groceries to pay the mortgage. I've said it before - the dream ends when you turn your back. You'll never be satisfied even if you make the CWS every year. Take it from someone old enough to be your father and smart enough to know what happens when dreams are memories. Good luck with the little bit of time on the clock and I hope that you realize that some of us may speak hurtful words, but are really trying to get you to think. Umpires make few friends in the game. Listen to what those outside your comfort zone are telling you. Be careful giving it all up. Regret is a lifetime pursuit. [Edited by WhatWuzThatBlue on Mar 2nd, 2006 at 07:09 PM]
__________________
"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. ~Naguib Mahfouz
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Fri Mar 03, 2006, 01:44pm
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Originally posted by millhouse76
This is Jason Millsap here Hi Jason I have some questions that I would like some clarification on: 1. Why isn't there simply one union for ALL professional Umpires instead of having separate ones? Reason being that the guys now fortunate enough to be in the BIG leagues were at the minor level once in their careers. Also, which in my opinion would be a major stubbling block. Would the Major League Umpires take a little less to filter some more money down to the minor leagues. I do not know the exact pay scales, but in what I have read, there is a HUGE difference between being the head of say Triple A and a "rookie" in the BIG Leagues. Should there be that much of a monetary change from Minor League baseball to the PROS? 2. At what level of Minor League baseball do you have 3 person crews. The reason I ask is that I live in Hudson Valley New York and am only 15 minutes from Dutchess Stadium the home of the Hudson Valley Rennigades an A affiliate of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. The cost is relatively inexpensive and my son enjoys the games. There are only 2 umpires for those games. Therefore, does it go something like this A ball - 2 person crews AA ball and Triple A - 3 person crews. I am a HS umpire and each year our association asks us if we would like 3 person crews. The problem, the FEES are not any different meaning we would have to take the same FEE and split it 3 ways instead of 2. The only exception is during State and Regional Finals in which the schools will pay for 3 officials. Therefore, any thought of simply going to 2 person crews for all of minor league baseball with the exception of the playoffs or ultimately is it a detriment because if you do make to the next level you are not prepared. Thank you Pete Booth
__________________
Peter M. Booth
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Fri Mar 03, 2006, 05:14pm
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Quote:
There are always exceptions, but I was using one specific example and you chose to generalize. I'm sorry, but you are way off on this one. There are plenty of guys out there that meet my criteria - they have put in the years instead of a few thousand at a winter camp. There are a few old timers here and any one of us could umpire rings around a newbie fresh out of pro school.
__________________
"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. ~Naguib Mahfouz
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Fri Mar 03, 2006, 05:17pm
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Maybe I need to rephrase. The A ball part I have LESS of an issue with, but AA? Not a chance. I don't care how long you've been doing it at what level, it doesn't compare, game managment and consistency-wise. The LEAST experienced guy in AA is in his fourth year in pro ball, so he's probably worked, including spring training, oh, a min. of 500 professional games. Who's kidding who?
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Fri Mar 03, 2006, 09:40pm
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AMLU/ MiLB Negotiations
Fellow Umpires,
After taking some time to see what has been written about this subject I feel that I MUST post something. My name is Brandon Leopoldus and I was a Minor League Umpire from 2000-2004. I am proud to say that I was part of the initial vote that ratified the Association of Minor League Umpires with the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB). I have read all the posts to this point, and I would loke to clarify some things in order. Before I begin, I want to thank Jason for his energy in attemping to answer the questions that have been posted on this forum, all of his answers have been honest, and to the point. Thank you for that buddy! Flashback to 1999: MLB umpires decide to have a "mass resignation", this was not a STRIKE, it was a negotiation tactic based on the advise of the union lawyer that turned out to be bad advise. THIS WAS NOT A STRIKE, OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF WALKOUT. The result of which was the hiring by MLB of 20+ new full-time members from both the International League, and Pacific Coast League. The question was asked "why didn't the Minor League guys support the Big League union move?" Simple answer. In 1999, there was only talk about a new union for the MiLB umpires in the near future. Nothing had been established, and each umpire that was offered a contract by the AL and NL were to decide for themselves. Perhaps if the AMLU had been formed before this happened, then the result may have been different, but that is speculation. Second, I know many of the umpires that "resigned" and many that are in the "new" group of 22. Today there is very little antimosity between these groups, outside of personality differences. As umpires, they respect each other and the MLB guys that were let go understand for the most part that the minor league umpires that recieved contracts could not pass up the opportunity to recieve a MLB contract without major strings attached. Third, a post stated that MiLB guys should realize that it is a special opportunity they have to work rofessional baseball games. I 100% agree with that, and I would say that everyone, including Jason, and myself realize that this is a great opportunity. However, from my research, I have been unable to find a career in the United States with an industry this large that has not recieved a pay increase in 12 years. I believe the minimum wage has increased 5 times in that period, yet MiLB has put pay freezes into place. We all realize that we are very fortunate to work the level that we have, but at the same time we need to be able to support ourselves and families. I was released the day after the 2004 World Series, and currently while still working in baseball in a small capacity, am scraping by more than 16 months later. I had $752.00 in my bank account the day I was released, and I have less today. Not a pitty story, I would not change my career choice, but I want to explain the circumstances. I routinely worked THREE different jobs during the off season, and my BEST year I cleared $20,000 before taxes. Good luck raising a family on $20k. Ladies and Gentelmen, I realize that many of you think the expereince level in the Minor Leagues is the same as experienced collegiate umpires, and I whole heartedly disagree. At the professional level the communication style is different that in college, and high school. A successful MLB/MiLB must master the proper ways to communicate, and why a manager/player is communicating in a certain way. Arguements in professional baseball are not just about calls they hapen for several reasons. Another difference in professional baseball is player development. It is detrimental to teams player development staffs to have different umpires on the field. Each team has reports on each umpire, their tendancies, and charts. Umpiring at that level requires consistancy that p.d. staffs can evaluate players performence. If collegiate umpires begin to work higher level Minor League games, the p.d. staffs have to restart this process rather than update information that they have on umpires like Jason. That is not beneficial for anyone, including the AMLU. I have been teaching clinics in Colorado for the past seven seasons and most of which, I have set up, administered, and taught for little or no cost. This is something that AMLU members do to help pass knowledge along, not out of ego, but to help out. I recently taught (with several other AMLU memmbers) the Colorado H.S. Baseball Umpire Master Clinic, and it cost the members nothing! We all have friends that are not in professional baseball, and consider them all to be important, and good umpires. We continue to pass on information and help associations to help the people who have helped us. At this time these same people are asking for your help in supporting their cause. These are stand up people who are sacrificing families, money, and time to go after something they deeply care about. They are not doing this because they feel bigger than anyone, they are doing this for their families, and to make the job less stressful on those families, and themselves. I ask you as a fellow umpire, whatever you may think or have heard about me, to think about why the AMLU is taking this action. I know that as a former member who has been speaking with other former AMLU memebers, the people who are going to work are 99% not former professional umpires, because we know what the fight is about. I have friends on the MiLB side, and many more on the AMLU side. I just ask that you think about the sides before you accept an assignment. If you have any questions, I have been throught the full spectrum of the Minor Leagues and had all the experiences from signing th contract, starting a union, fighting for the union, and ultimately being released; please feel free to contact me. Thank you, and may you always be safe!! Brandon Leopoldus 2000-2004 AMLU/ MiLB umpire [email protected] (719)310-4928
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Sat Mar 04, 2006, 12:35am
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I'm going to bed, but wanted to say to Leo, well done! You are articulate and prepared. I think that you made valid points about some issues and clarified others.
However, your 'large industry' is roughly 250 members. That doesn't seem to qualify as a giant in any stretch of the imagination. Some grocery stores have that many employees and I'd bet you a dollar to a donut, that some of those people make less than you. In fact, let's look at a really large industry that trains individuals while helping them climb the 'corporate ladder'. The United States Military offers on the job training and the opportunity for advancement. Those courageous souls who enlist are aware that they will not get rich. The pay is nominal and raises are negligible. In fact, many enlistees train for a career and leave when their time is up to venture to greener pastures. They leave because they realize that a career in the military is not for the feint of heart nor Donald Trump aspirants. The fact that you aren't getting paid more is sad, but no different than many of us. The important difference is that we don't ask others to stay away from our games when we walk away. The moral of the story is if you leave your beautiful girlfriend at a bar, she may not be there when you come back. How long have you been dating? Do you think she'll take you back after you left her? A cup of joe and kick in the pants are in order. AMLU -wake up before it is too late. Take the small increase and sign for a year. Work out the bugs in the next one and keep your jobs. The simple truth is that some of us would rather see you out there. All I'm saying is, if you leave you are done. That would be a tragedy. Good night and may we all be in a better mood in the morning. Johnny, my boy, I need a nightcap!
__________________
"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. ~Naguib Mahfouz
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Sat Mar 04, 2006, 10:57am
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Quote:
__________________
Alan Roper Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here - CPT John Parker, April 19, 1775, Lexington, Mass
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Mon Apr 03, 2006, 01:07am
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What is wrong with a guy like john coons taking a high school game. He pays his dues just like the next guy. He has paid his dues for years and not worked any games. What makes him any different than anybody in that group. If he didn't pay dues and just off the street called and wanted a game that would be wrong. But the minor league guys (like myself and john) that pay there dues and teach clinics for free should be able to work these games. I am still working college games myself. I dont have a schedule. My assigner sends out a mass email to the whole group when a game is turned back to him and if you can work you respond. If he sends me the game back i take. If someone had not turned back that game it would not be there for me to work. I don't feel bad about working those games at all. And the guys work I with like to work with me and support the amlu. Every college umpire i have worked with has been in support of what we are doing. Do you guys think it is wrong that i am still working college games in my area? I paid the same fee that everyone else in the group paid.
Clint Lawson [email protected] Carolina League
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Mon Apr 03, 2006, 01:45am
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im not really involved in these threads, but its good to see that at least one person decided to post as themselves from that side of the table. the anonymous coward attacks got old after about .4 seconds.
note that im trusting Clint Lawson to actually be the real Clint Lawson
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Mon Apr 03, 2006, 10:30am
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Quote:
If, (worst case scenario), the strike continues into late May, June..., I hope the MiLB Umpires extend the same courtesy of not working the Independent League games as I did by not working AAA games as a fill-in/scab.
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Mon Apr 03, 2006, 02:18pm
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I belong to the high school association that is proud to have Clint Lawson as a member. He is one of our youngest members but is an invaluable resource. He has generously donated his time to share his professional training and experience for clinics on mechanics and rules at no charge to our membership. Even during his Minor League seasons he has responded by cell phone or email to questions. He pays dues ,is very active in the organization of our association and has been nominated for election as an officer. Yes , he works some high school games and myself and others have benefited from the games we have worked with him. I am a better umpire thanks to Clint and 5 or 6 other MiLB guys that I have spent time with on the field and in clinics. I have not been asked but I will support these guys by turning down any offer of MiLB games. And also by welcoming as partners those who choose to participate in the manner Clint has at our local amateur level.
By the way I called Clint this morning with a question and also confirmed for myself that the earlier poster was indeed the real Clint Lawson.
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