First Day on the Field( GD System Rant)

[Carbide Keyman]

Having used the GD system for three seasons,and having worked every level from high school varsity to (oh, the shame !!) Little League, the system is great at any level of play.




Doug

[RPatrino]

The GD system is extremely easy to teach. Try to teach the LL method of heel-toe, one arm across chest, put your hand behind your knee. When do I switch, when don't I???

I made a decision years ago as the UIC of our youth umpire association to only teach the GD system. We teach the hands on knee stance for working the bases, why not behind the plate?

We preach to keep your head still, yet we see umpires with the "floating" head, who move up and down consistantly. I've seen umps start with their hands on knees prior to the pitch and then put them between their legs, or heaven forbid, behind their backs. And they wonder why they are always getting chirped at about their "consistant" zones.

Bob

[cbfoulds]

Originally posted by mikebran
General GD questions, possibly repeated.

Of the persons who have adopted the GD plate stance, and are working it as taught and intended...

Do any of you work, "lower level" 90 foot baseball? Non shavers? I ask this because it appears to a layman observer that this system would be a "bit" more dangerous for persons behind lesser skilled 14-16 year old catchers, and "wilder" pitchers.

GD looks good to me, and I am considering making this an OPTION in my association training, for persons that either want to go that way, or may benefit from the advantages of GD. However, I am concerned about the question above?

IS GD a good option for NEW umpires, or should it be reserved for upper level guys doing upper level ball?

Yep, me.....
I use GD in ALL levels, including the [small # of] U12 games I do on 60'. I DO NOT get hit more @ "lower" levels, or indeed @ any level, than I did as a "scissors guy". I DO get hit [took a fast ball square on the cup in a HS Varsity contest last year].

IMHO, GD can be used by anyone - the rock-solid lock-in, the absolutely consistent "look" at each pitch, and the wider-angle view from farther back all would be helpful to the novice umpire. Biggest problem is exactly what you are asking about, however. MANY newbies [and a lot of old farts, as well] are so fixated on avoiding any possibility of getting drilled that they WANT to hide close behind the catcher as much as possible: GD makes 'em nervous as a cat in a room full of rockers.

[phillips.alex]

As someone who uses GD, when i work lower levels i do tuck my hand closest to the batter (depending on righty or lefty) However this is only for teams with tiny catchers. As soon as you hit high school GD is amazing

alex

[Rich Ives]

Tee - I wish your post had been there before I submitted my "Mindsets . . " article. Would have made a good example.

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by phillips.alex
As someone who uses GD, when i work lower levels i do tuck my hand closest to the batter (depending on righty or lefty) However this is only for teams with tiny catchers. As soon as you hit high school GD is amazing

alex

what do you mean by this? you tuck your hand where?

[3appleshigh]

And I used my GD stance in all the games I did last year about a total of 65 or so. This was all level of ball from 12 - 20yrs old and some senior ball. I'm using it in Canada and the level of ball is VASTLY inferior to what you would face anywhere in the states if you are dealing with travelling teams. I am 6'3" tall and about 300lbs, so I am quite the target, I got hit by the ball on probably 1-2 times a game, 90% of the time in the shinpads as catchers missed the ball or it was fouled off. Most of the other shots were in the Head. Prior to GD I would be hit 1-2 times in the legs a game, 1-2 times in the upperbody and head during the game. So my numbers are WAY Way down.

This past season I actually took one in the hand, hurt, but no more than taking one in the forearm. Which I did - 2-3 times a season before switching.

[ajjl22]

Originally posted by briancurtin

what do you mean by this? you tuck your hand where?

I think he means behind his knee. I have seen a few guys do this because they are afraid of their hands getting hit. But is also doesn't allow them to get locked in.

[BretMan]

I'm currently doing indoor games. The teams playing (12U travel teams) use the winter league to develop new players and work on new positions and skills. It's the perfect time for umpires to do the same thing!

Last week, my curiosity piqued by some posts on these boards, I decided to try the GD stance for the first time. Or, rather, I used the GD stance as best as I understood it at the time. The link to the handout posted ealier in this thread gave me a few more pointers and a better understanding of how this system works.

A few impressions from a first-timer:

It felt strange! Which would be expected after hundreds of games using a typical "heal/toe, in the slot" stance.

You do seem to get a pretty good look at the pitch all the way into the mitt.

Those low pitches sure do look different! I had the sensation of looking down through the zone, compared to my usual "eyes at the top of the zone". Again, that would be expected. The view is different, but certainly not inferior.

I felt exposed and found myself flinching on some pitches that I would not normally flinch on. Probably just a reaction to the more upright stance.

Two of the positions that teams naturally work on in this league are pitcher and catcher. The wildness of the new pitchers and the lack of skills with the new catchers made things interesting back there!

This is a common problem with the younger catchers, but some of them want to set-up really close to the plate. With me being further back, my view of the plate seemed blocked at times. I was compensating by staying a little bit higher and moving closer to the catcher. Right approach? Wrong approach?

I wasn't really on the field long enough (2 one-hour timed games) to gather much data on the fatigue factor. My initial impression was that my legs were under less stress than usual.

I'm not sure what my local associations position is on the GD stance. Our meetings start next week and I plan on asking about that. At our past clinics, things were pretty much limited to the box and scissors. And, of course, we've always been told to never rest your hands on your knees.

More games tomorrow! I think that I'll experiment some more and see what happens.





[Edited by BretMan on Feb 3rd, 2006 at 01:22 AM]

[GarthB]

Originally posted by RPatrino
Try to teach the LL method of heel-toe, one arm across chest, put your hand behind your knee.

The LL method? (guffaw)

[RPatrino]

I'm serious Garth !! Try teaching that stance, better yet, try using it. I challenge anyone who supports the way LL teaches mechanics to explain the rationale behind how they instruct plate umpires.

Bob

[Rich Ives]

Originally posted by RPatrino
I'm serious Garth !! Try teaching that stance, better yet, try using it. I challenge anyone who supports the way LL teaches mechanics to explain the rationale behind how they instruct plate umpires.

Bob

Let the experts decide, but consider:

Perhaps it is easier to teach and learn. LL umpires are "dad's from the stands" or former coaches who want to keep involved after their kids graduate, but only do one game a week.

Perhaps it is easier on the knees and legs of someone who isn't in the best of physical shape.

The players are a lot smaller. Calling for 4 to 5 feet tall batters may be better served by this stance than in a game with 6 foot tall batters.

[RPatrino]

Rich, nothing is harder to me then trying to teach brand new umpires how to get into a plate stance that looks like its better suited to squattin in the woods then working a baseball game. You have no more than 60 minutes at the beginning of the season for this training. After they leave the clinic, all bets are off for the most part.Thats where you see all the different "variations" of box, heel-toe, scissors, modified scissors, or the old "pop a squat".

The Davis System is super simple. You widen your stance, put your hands on your knees, lower your butt. Voila! Now all they have to learn is to get in the slot, keep your head still and call strikes. Anything else makes no sense.

Smaller batters, you widen your stance. Simple.

Bob

[haztech19]

Excuse me if I am misunderstanding things here. I hear a lot of talk about heal toe and GD system. As I have read on the subject the GD system is more about the lock in and position in relation to the plate and catcher than about foot position. In fact, the gd system actually gives the option of a square or heal toe stance. As to the slot vs the GD system, by definition of where you set up in the GD system you are in the slot. The slot is defined as the area between the plate and the batter.

[BigUmp56]

Bob:

What's so hard about teaching this stance? The only difference in this stance Bill Davis is teaching ~vs~ the stance taught at the LL Central Region training school is the placement of the left hand. The LL training asks that you remove your hand from the front of the knee, clinch it into a fist, and lockin with the forearm.



In fact, LL teaches this exact stance taught at Evans.




Tim.

[Edited by BigUmp56 on Feb 8th, 2006 at 08:36 PM]