Verbal Mechanics

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by Tim C
PWL wrote:

"Why was he leaving home uncovered?"

Tee queries:

"What is the difference between the PU taking this play at third compared to the PU rotating up to take R1 into third on a normal base hit coverage . . . it appears that, according to you, the plate would be 'uncovered' in both examples?"

Tee

PWL,

Statements like that one make me wonder how in the world you can insult the good folks at the new OU site, when every last one of them would know the mechanic for this play. You, on the other hand, must like to stay at home tending your little garden, while expecting the base umpire to do your job for you.

From what information you have provided on this forum, you must be absolutely horrific. 20 wrong calls a game ....yeah, right. That might have amused some people, but it really must have been closer to a description of yourself.

Let's review:

1) you never have ejected anyone. Everyone agrees, you haven't done your job properly.

2) you give "make-up" calls in order to even up bad calls.

3) you make intentional wrong calls in close games, because you want to go take off your gear and rest up for the second game of a double-header.

4) you don't go to first or third in rundown situations when you are supposed to do so.

I am sure there are more things you do wrong than these, as they are probably just the tip of the iceberg.

I wouldn't have even brought this up, but you seem to think you are better than the umpires on the new forum, and it is perfectly obvious that you are not.

[mcrowder]

Methinks PWL is simply a man who gets jollies from stirring things up. Either he is suggesting we all use extremely poor habits and mechanics, or he's just a troll who KNOWS what he's saying is wrong.

Either that or he's a coach!

Or an announcer.

(Edit for spelling).

[LDUB]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve
Statements like that one make me wonder how in the world you can insult the good folks at the new OU site, when every last one of them would know the mechanic for this play.

Is this the same crowd where a global moderator wants to send R2 back to third on an outfield hit because the catcher is knocked out?

[BigUmp56]

Yes, that was the discussion. If any of you would like to take a look at what was actually being discussed instead of giving credence to Luke's ambiguous statement, here it is.

http://www.officials-unlimited.com/f...hp?topic=130.0

Tim.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by BigUmp56
Yes, that was the discussion. If any of you would like to take a look at what was actually being discussed instead of giving credence to Luke's ambiguous statement, here it is.

http://www.officials-unlimited.com/f...hp?topic=130.0

Tim.

Sorry Tim, that discussion is off limits to guests.

[BigUmp56]

I've opened it up in the "situations" category.

Try this one.


http://www.officials-unlimited.com/f...hp?topic=130.0


Tim.

[Tim C]

There is no chance that I would ever do what SDS suggests:

Play continues under all codes with shaving aged players.

As always, I don't give a freak about LL.

At umpire school you are taught:

"As the BR rounds first base on a clean single . . . as he turns he breaks his "pjuckimming" leg . . . as he lies in a puddle F3 requests the ball and tags him out for being off the base. What do you do!"

I call him "out."

No matter what SDS "wants" to do I call games by the rules.

Nuff' said.

There is no rule nor logic that allows SDS to make his call.

That is why, I guess, that he thinks he "could have been an MLB umpire."

I guess this play alone shows that to be incorrect.

Tee

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

I like Tee's mechanic about rundown or moving coverage situations. Rookies should pay attention to the fact that the umpire is saying that he is there, not that he is going there. I don't really worry about the defense hearing me say, "I'm at third, partner." or "I'm here, Jim." Both ways let my partner(s) know that I have moved, not that I'm in the process of it. In other words, be there before opening your mouth - it should only take a second or two to move the necessary amount.

[BigUmp56]

There certainly is a rule that would allow this.

NFHS Section 2 Suspension of play.

Article 1 Time shall be called by the umpire and play is suspended when-

(d)An umpire or player in incapacitated, exept that if an injury occurs during a live ball, time shall not be called until no further advance or put out is possible:

Exception

If there is a medical emergency or if, in the umpires judgement further play could jeapordize the injured players safety, "Time" shall be called.

In the play we were discussing we had a catcher hit in the back of the head with a bat, lying down on the plate. There was R2 rounding third bearing down on the plate. There's no way in Hades I'm going to let the play continue with the catcher down on the plate like this.

Of course this all about personal judgement. My judgement is that the welfare of the player superceeds the welfare of the game. I'm not going to be a phsycic out there and try to guess what will happen. I feel it's best to err on the side of safety and protect that player.

Tim.

[dddunn3d]

PWL, do you post just to hear yourself type?

edit below:

When I originally wrote this, PWL had five unresponded to posts in a row, all submitted within about a 45 minute timeframe.

Now, it appears that someone has deleted three of them.

[Edited by dddunn3d on Jan 22nd, 2006 at 05:53 AM]

[ozzy6900]

It's no wonder why no one wants to post here anymore. Just look at you all nitpicking to each other and vomiting on the board. It's becoming a joke!

How about this. If you don't like us - go to another board.

If you don't like each other - use email or IM but keep this crap to yourselves.

If you don't like what I am saying here, tough $hit!

Stop acting like a bunch of little jacka$$es!

[David B]

Originally posted by PWL

All I got here is a rundown between 2B and 3B. Is this just a pick off play with just runner at 2B. Yes, I move to cover 3B. Situation, runner on 1B and basehit to to outfield. Yes, PU should be prepared for play at third?
Me thinks you read too much into situation. If BU is already in better position, PU doesn't need to be all the way down there. If ball had gotten past F5 or 3B, PU is right in the middle of a possible play and out of position. Like David B. said he had the worst site line to make the call. Is BU going to rotate all the way back from the middle of the infield to take a play at home. Just take each play for what it is. Recognize what is happening and what can happen.

Don't get too far away from the plate when you don't have too. Protect yourself for a possible play. Trust your BU to do his job too.

My point is be ready to help if needed. Move down the line halfway or so. Watch the play develop. Get there if needed. Don't get caught with your pants around your ankles and have home uncovered in case of a possible play.

Read the posts correctly in order and you won't get so confused.

My comments about the PU was in response to Bob Jenkins - PU needs to be at 3rd base, that's his responsibility - but don't say anything until you are there and in position> to make a call.

In the play I referenced seeing, the PU was NOT in position to make a call thus the BU should have taken the play, and why the PU missed the call.

Once PU is in position then he can communicate "I've got 3rd" and BU knows how to react etc.,

If you're hanging around the plate, you're not going to get many games in our associations except for JV and below.

Thanks
David

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by Tim C
There is no chance that I would ever do what SDS suggests:

Play continues under all codes with shaving aged players.

As always, I don't give a freak about LL.

At umpire school you are taught:

"As the BR rounds first base on a clean single . . . as he turns he breaks his "pjuckimming" leg . . . as he lies in a puddle F3 requests the ball and tags him out for being off the base. What do you do!"

I call him "out."

No matter what SDS "wants" to do I call games by the rules.

Nuff' said.

There is no rule nor logic that allows SDS to make his call.

That is why, I guess, that he thinks he "could have been an MLB umpire."

I guess this play alone shows that to be incorrect.

Tee

Well, of course you are good enough for the majors, Tee!

We weren't discussing LL as you have stated, we were discussing both Fed and OBR at a Youth Ball level. There are other youth organizations besides Little League. Actual youth leagues with shaving age people. Why do you feel that every discussion involves adults? Most people on all of these forums work some form of 18 and younger baseball.

Tim cited the Fed rule on this, which allows for the play to be killed in the event of the possibility of a serious injury.

Yes, the professional interpretation is that regardless of the severity of the injury, play is to continue until the ball is returned to the infield, and no runners are in jeopardy of being put out. But that's the thing: We aren't dealing with professionals, we are dealing with kids. Safety is a big concern in youth ball games, and I am not going to let the play continue when the catcher is laid out across home plate. I will stretch 5.10(c) and use 9.01(c). In adult baseball, play on!

Tee, I wouldn't put too much stock in what the Posse says. They have their own little agenda when it comes to evaluation, and they have never evaluated me. They are not even in my association, and haven't been for years. I can give you much better references than that bunch upon request. Oh, and just like you, I like my name spelled right, too.

Oh yeah, I also understand that you actually like me! You sure have a funny way of showing it.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve
Tim cited the Fed rule on this, which allows for the play to be killed in the event of the possibility of a serious injury.

Why are you sending R2 back to third? How can you explain to the offensive coach that R2 would not have scored when there is no one at the plate to catch a throw?

[BigUmp56]

I think it's going to be pretty easy to explain to the offensive coach.

Coach: "Why didn't you score the run, there was no one there to field the throw?"

Me: "Well, Skip, if your batter didn't clock him in the back of the head then the catcher wouldn't be on the ground unable to field the throw."

Tim.