Dropped third strike

[Tom Cook]

I'm not a baseball umpire but last night, while watching the IN baseball tourney 1st round games, I saw an interesting play. Runner on 1st 1 out. Batter swings at strike three, the ball is in the dirt and catcher blocks it.
The runner advances, but PU sends him back to lst. Could this have been a dead ball if the ball hit the batter in the box? I thought the ball would be live since it hit the ground and the catcher 1st. Help I'm confused!!

[Gre144]

Batter is out because first base is occupied with less than 2 outs. Ball remains alive. Runners run at thier own risk.

Greg

[Tom Cook]

That's what I thought, but the runner was safely at second and then the PU sent him back to first.

[mick]

Originally posted by Tom Cook
That's what I thought, but the runner was safely at second and then the PU sent him back to first.

Was there only one umpire?
mick

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Tom Cook
I'm not a baseball umpire but last night, while watching the IN baseball tourney 1st round games, I saw an interesting play. Runner on 1st 1 out. Batter swings at strike three, the ball is in the dirt and catcher blocks it.
The runner advances, but PU sends him back to lst. Could this have been a dead ball if the ball hit the batter in the box? I thought the ball would be live since it hit the ground and the catcher 1st. Help I'm confused!!

Maybe ....

If the batter struck out, then interfered with the catcher AND the umpire judged that the catcher had no play on the runner (if there hadn't been interference), then the runer should be returned to first base. (7.3.5C).

If there had been a play on the runner, both would be out.

If there was no interference, the runner should have been left at second.

[mick]

Nice catch, Bob!

[Tom Cook]

I finally got the solution from talking to the official scorer. The ball nicked the batter, so they had strike three and a dead ball. I know it would be something simple. The dead ball was called by the third base umpire.
Thanks guys!

[Gre144]

If the ball hits the batter and a strike is called because he swings at it or it crosses the strike zone, is the ball always dead? What if you have strike 3 on the batter, but the ball hits him and the catcher doesn't catch the ball? If you kill it,then how can the batter-runner attempt to run to first base which he is allowed to do on a dropped thrid strike with first base unoccupied and less then 2 outs?

[Blaine Gallant]

Originally posted by Gre144
If the ball hits the batter and a strike is called because he swings at it or it crosses the strike zone, is the ball always dead? What if you have strike 3 on the batter, but the ball hits him and the catcher doesn't catch the ball? If you kill it,then how can the batter-runner attempt to run to first base which he is allowed to do on a dropped thrid strike with first base unoccupied and less then 2 outs?

This is precisely WHY we kill it. On the play, batter swings, misses and the ball deflects off his knee, to the backstop. R3 scores.

Now, how do we justify R3 scoring on a play that the catcher had no chance to field?

Don't think too much about the effect on the offense. It is the OFFENSIVE player who missed the pitch and got hit! Simple play, dead ball. Remember on ANY PITCH THAT HITS THE BATTER, THE BALL IS DEAD (OBR).

Blaine

[Gre144]

Originally posted by Blaine Gallant

This is precisely WHY we kill it. On the play, batter swings, misses and the ball deflects off his knee, to the backstop. R3 scores.

Now, how do we justify R3 scoring on a play that the catcher had no chance to field?

Don't think too much about the effect on the offense. It is the OFFENSIVE player who missed the pitch and got hit! Simple play, dead ball. Remember on ANY PITCH THAT HITS THE BATTER, THE BALL IS DEAD (OBR).

Blaine

So does the batter get first base or is he automatically out on a dropped third strike that hits him as he swings?According to Fed 8-1-1-d-E the hitting of the batter is disregarded if he is hit by the pitch but swings at it for strike three. The ball is immediately dead. However, this rule does not say whether the batter is out or not on a called third strike that hits him and the catcher drops the ball. If you call the ball dead immediately as the rule book states, then how does the batter get the opportunity to run to unoccupied first base?

In short, my question is the following:Is strike three called on the batter and the batter gets a chance to run to third?; or is the batter automatically out? (Assume that the ball hits him as he swings and the catcher drops the ball. First base is unoccupied.)

[Edited by Gre144 on May 31st, 2001 at 11:58 PM]

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Gre144

So does the batter get first base or is he automatically out on a dropped third strike that hits him as he swings?According to Fed 8-1-1-d-E the hitting of the batter is disregarded if he is hit by the pitch but swings at it for strike three. The ball is immediately dead. However, this rule does not say whether the batter is out or not on a called third strike that hits him and the catcher drops the ball. If you call the ball dead immediately as the rule book states, then how does the batter get the opportunity to run to unoccupied first base?

In short, my question is the following:Is strike three called on the batter and the batter gets a chance to run to third?; or is the batter automatically out? (Assume that the ball hits him as he swings and the catcher drops the ball. First base is unoccupied.)

[Edited by Gre144 on May 31st, 2001 at 11:58 PM]

The ball is immediately dead. 5-1-1a.
It's a strike. 7-2-1b.
The "award" for being hit by pitch is ignored. 8-1-1d
Runners cannot advance on dead ball, except for "awards" that occurred before ball became dead. 5-2-2c.

Conclusion: Batter is out, runners return. See also 5.1.1B.

Other than the specific references, the rule is the same at all levels.

[Blaine Gallant]

The ball is dead and the batter is automatically out. He has no chance to advance to FIRST.

I am speaking OBR. Also, this is the rule. It doesn't matter if you think it is fair, etc. The rule is cut and dry, he is out.

BTW, in which country does the Batter run to 3rd? (grin)

Blaine

[whiskers_ump]

Blaine,
Dont know in what COUNTRY the batter
runs to 3RD but it would be in the
Drunkard STATE.


[Edited by whiskers_ump on Jun 5th, 2001 at 05:42 AM]