New rule for Fed to consider

[greymule]

From the Los Angeles Times: California atheist Stuart Bechman, likening the climate of today to that of the McCarthy era, says he "feels stress when a major-leaguer points skyward after a hit."

Since most schools playing under Fed receive government money in some way or another, a high school player mimicking a major-leaguer and pointing skyward is apparently violating the U.S. Constitution. In the spirit of political correctness, and to avoid stressing atheists, perhaps Fed should prohibit any ballfield action that might be interpreted as acknowledging the existence of God.

There's already a Fed rule against "simulating tobacco use." They could simply add "simulating belief in God."

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by greymule
From the Los Angeles Times: California atheist Stuart Bechman, likening the climate of today to that of the McCarthy era, says he "feels stress when a major-leaguer points skyward after a hit."

Since most schools playing under Fed receive government money in some way or another, a high school player mimicking a major-leaguer and pointing skyward is apparently violating the U.S. Constitution. In the spirit of political correctness, and to avoid stressing atheists, perhaps Fed should prohibit any ballfield action that might be interpreted as acknowledging the existence of God.

There's already a Fed rule against "simulating tobacco use." They could simply add "simulating belief in God."

How are you going to create a rule and apply it to Catholic or Christian schools which their mission is to praise God? In all my post season games the Regional I was assigned had only one public school in the pairings. In my Sectional (4 different Regionals feeding into the Sectional) all the teams were Christian and/or Catholic schools. So how can you create a rule that entire conferences are made up of Catholic and Private schools? That would be a bad idea if you ask me.

Peace

[mcrowder]

You might notice that the things that have been found to be unconstitutional are mass groupings making people feel uncomfortable by their acts, or authority figures forcing people under their authority to do something that makes them uncomfortable (religion-wise).

A single player making this gesture on his own is not an any way making the athiest uncomfortable. Kind of a stupid comment, actually.

[briancurtin]

kids chanting "we want a pitcher, not a belly itcher" should be ejected because it makes fun of the large bellies of the incresing overweight/obese population in the US, and thats just wrong.

[greymule]

increasing overweight/obese population in the US

I am a medical editor, and much of the work I do involves prevention and treatment of obesity. And the problem affects us all. For example, the federal government pays out billions in Medicaid annually for treatment of diabetes and its many complications. The epidemic of obesity has turned diabetes from a relatively rare condition into a very common one.

Incidentally, from across the pond:

A woman struck by a car while standing on a sidewalk on a sidewalk in northern England ran afoul of police when she described the errant driver as "fat." "I was given a frosty look and told I could have [used the term] lardy, porky, or podgy," said Mary Magilton, 54. A police spokesman cited a firm policy of "appropriate language" in police reports.

Next time someone says the pitcher threw a "fat" pitch, I'm going issue a warning and suggest alternative terms. Second offense, I'll call the PC police.

I remember editing a police report years ago in which the officer had written: "One lady smashed a chair over my back, and another lady came at me with a broken beer bottle."

Yes, and "we found the gentleman lying in the gutter outside a bar."

[largeone59]

...the player could be acknowledgeing a dead relative or friend and not God...

I really hope you're not serious with this thread, greymule.

[greymule]

acknowledging a dead relative or friend and not God

Even if he insists he is not acknowledging God directly, by pointing to the sky in remembrance of his dead relative or friend, he is still apparently expounding, or at least simulating, a belief in the immortality of the soul, the existence of consciousness after death, or some other nefarious notion that traditionally involves belief in God and could make an atheist feel stressed.

Remember, in Fed it doesn't have to be actual tobacco use. The case book says that a player is to be ejected if he has chewing gum packed into his cheek such that it could be mistaken for a wad of tobacco. So neither does it have to be actual acknowledgment of a deity. The test is whether an atheist would feel stressed by seeing it.

A guy down the street is a member of the ACLU. I'm going to check with him and see what he thinks about this violation of the wall of separation between church and sports.

[Edited by greymule on Nov 14th, 2005 at 05:06 PM]

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

I'll admit that I don't umpire a whole lot of High School Baseball anymore, but I try to stay current with the rules and interpretations. When the tobacco rule was first implemented, I recall some discussion about "Big League Chew" coming in a foil puch and its shredded appearance caused concern. The Illinois state interpreter stated that a tobacco like product is not candy. We can't control the packaging of the product, only our judgement.

I grabbed the Case Book and looked up the use of tobacco. Page 29 has a very good example for the coach (Sit. W) and a player (Sit. Y). The problem with the language of 3.3.1 X is that umpires that interpret tobacco-like to be anything that can be chewed are really missing the boat. Has anyone actually enforced this rule for candy?

Much like the umpire that thinks "goddam" or "jesuschrist" is offensive language, this is a silly enforcement of a pretty smart rule. [Don't do that either.]

For what its worth, I smoked and chewed as both a player and umpire. I don't anymore, and cringe when I see others starting. I worked a lot of games when home plate had juice on it from the catcher, batter or myself. It wasn't pretty.

[JRutledge]

Here is a big problem with your point of view. The NF does not govern local associations in any way. In my state all schools decide to join the IHSA. It is up to each individual school to decide if they will compete for the championships that the IHSA uses. There are also local leagues that use the NF rules by choice and use modified rules that go against written NF rules. There are also states that use rules that are very specific to their state or region. It is really pointless.

I also remember when the NCAA wanted to disallow kneeling down after TDs in football games. Jerry Farwell who was the President of Liberty University sued the NCAA over that issue and the NCAA backed off and allowed such things to be celebrated. The NCAA has much more money than the NF, so I do not see this going to court anytime soon.

Peace

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

I think I already covered this.

Do you remember when I had to inform Carl that the NFHS permits member associations to modify the printed rules to meet their needs? I also had to point out that the NFHS rules are mere guidelines and compliance is voluntary.

It is located on the very first page of the rule book in the box.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I am very offended by the use of the terms "Goddamn" and "Jesus Christ" as swear words on the baseball field. My ears aren't garbage cans, and many of the fans feel the same way. The use of either of these phrases will certainly get you a warning for language in any youth or high school game I am umpiring. That includes adult coaches in youth games, as well. In adult leagues, hey, do whatcha like, as Humpty would say.

On the other hand, people who have a problem with athletes pointing to the sky have way too much time on their hands, and need to worry about more important things.

I also have zero respect for anyone associated with the ACLU, or the "Anti-Christian Liberties Union", as I like to refer to it. It has never really been an organization concerned with civil liberties, but rather the taking away of such liberties. The ACLJ, or American Center for Law and Justice, is much more supportive of the rights of all Americans.

[Justme]

This is a joke right?

Maybe, for health's sake, Stuart Bechman should not watch baseball.

I wonder if:
* The batter just looks up, does that upset Stuart Bechman?
* The batter points the bat down, does that upset Stuart Bechman?

Maybe Stuart Bechman lacks a life and is desperatly looking for attention.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Steve - I can appreciate your honesty but take a step back and look what you are saying. You are injecting your Christian based morality into a game. Invoking or thanking the Lord is okay, using his name in vain isn't? Come on, we have Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists and the like all playing our favorite game. I've umpired plenty of games with non-native English speakers and didn't know what they were saying - offensive or not. Would you warn or eject a kid for saying, "holymoses", "allah" or "mohammed"?

Around here, if a player curses at himself we usually ignore it - unless he screams it, of course! If a varsity second baseman, while tying his shoelace, breaks it and mutters "goddam it", are you reallly going to warn him about his language?

I've heard some of the most foul on-field language from so called Christian school athletes. I've never melted or had to go wash my ears out after those words. They are, after all, just words. When they are directed at me or an opponent, they take on new meaning and I've bounced kids for gestures too. But they've always crossed the line when using them and they knew it.

Some of us are fortunate to live in more tolerant environs. Mixed ethnicities and religions don't afford us the luxury of Sunday school marmism. We make the calls and ensure that the game is being played fairly. My job is not to ensure that they get into heaven or not. If Junior wants to invoke Allah's name, I don't care. Well, as long as he's not wearing a backpack when he yells it.

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by largeone59
...the player could be acknowledgeing a dead relative or friend and not God...

I really hope you're not serious with this thread, greymule.

i worked a weekend series once where one of the away players would always write the initials of someone right outside the batters box before the first pitch of every at bat, and he pointed to the sky in the second game after a home run. i would guess he was pointing to whoever's initials he wrote before the at bats.

i also work games for a team where their backup catcher always writes some initials with his front cleat right where he stands, after he throws to second. never noticed any pointing, but a lot of players point or do things "god related" with the intention of dedicating whatever the did/are doing to that relative.

not saying grey mule doesnt know this, or doesnt agree, just throwing out a few situations ive encountered like that.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
Steve - I can appreciate your honesty but take a step back and look what you are saying. You are injecting your Christian based morality into a game. Invoking or thanking the Lord is okay, using his name in vain isn't? Come on, we have Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists and the like all playing our favorite game. I've umpired plenty of games with non-native English speakers and didn't know what they were saying - offensive or not. Would you warn or eject a kid for saying, "holymoses", "allah" or "mohammed"?

Around here, if a player curses at himself we usually ignore it - unless he screams it, of course! If a varsity second baseman, while tying his shoelace, breaks it and mutters "goddam it", are you reallly going to warn him about his language?

I've heard some of the most foul on-field language from so called Christian school athletes. I've never melted or had to go wash my ears out after those words. They are, after all, just words. When they are directed at me or an opponent, they take on new meaning and I've bounced kids for gestures too. But they've always crossed the line when using them and they knew it.

Some of us are fortunate to live in more tolerant environs. Mixed ethnicities and religions don't afford us the luxury of Sunday school marmism. We make the calls and ensure that the game is being played fairly. My job is not to ensure that they get into heaven or not. If Junior wants to invoke Allah's name, I don't care. Well, as long as he's not wearing a backpack when he yells it.

No WWTB, I have no problem with someone reverently invoking the name of their diety, such as Allah, or Mohammed. I am talking about swearing. Holy Moses is not swearing any more than is holy smoke, or holy cow. And yes, it is okay to thank the Lord, and it isn't okay to use His name in vain. I found that in the Big Rule Book. In fact, it was Moses that wrote that section.

Also, I am refering to them screaming the curses, not muttering to themselves out of frustration. I'm certainly no saint myself, and I don't act like a cop on the field. I can't begin to tell you the number of times I've heard the "F" word as I'm heading back to 'A' after the batter has flied out! As long as he doesn't make a big scene, I don't say a word. But if he screams it out to where it can be picked up by a small child watching the game, I simply say, "hey, watch the language", and that usually takes care of it.

Now cussing me personally, well.....that's a horse of a different color. Pack your bags, because you're going on a little trip!

Edited for spelling as to not offend the grammar police

[Edited by SanDiegoSteve on Nov 14th, 2005 at 08:30 PM]