New rule for Fed to consider

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve

No WWTB, I have no problem with someone reverently invoking the name of their diety, such as Allah, or Mohammed. I am talking about swearing. Holy Moses is not swearing any more than is holy smoke, or holy cow. And yes, it is okay to thank the Lord, and it isn't okay to use His name in vain. I found that in the Big Rule Book. In fact, it was Moses that wrote that section.

Also, I am refering to them screaming the curses, not muttering to themselves out of frustration. I'm certainly no saint myself, and I don't act like a cop on the field. I can't begin to tell you the number of times I've heard the "F" word as I'm heading back to 'A' after the batter has flied out! As long as he doesn't make a big scene, I don't say a word. But if he screams is out to where it can be picked up by a small child watching the game, I simply say, "hey, watch the language", and that usually takes care of it.

Now cussing me personally, well.....that's a horse of a different color. Pack your bags, because you're going on a little trip!

The problem with that logic is that not everyone believes in THE BIG RULE BOOK! In fact, there are other BIG BOOKS out there! Your morals have no place on the field. Do you eject a kid for saying, "for christsakes" when his teammate drops another flyball? What happens when you warn him to knock it off and his coach hears that and asks for an explanation? Do you pull out a bible?

Moses didn't write any section, but I digress. If a Jew says "jesuschrist" (please note, that I have used lower case letters in both posts), it is not taking the name of his God in vain. If I say, "allah" when a ball is dropped, it is the same thing. You don't want to be a cop out there, but you are acting like a preacher. Religious beliefs have no place on a non-secular baseball field.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Your welcome to your opinion WWTB, but many disagree. My assignment secretary, who has over 50 years in this association, and has seen it all would disagree with you. He has stated to me that the two words that would get you run, are "goddamn" and "jesuschrist". And this is coming from an ex-boatswain's mate who cusses up a blue streak, and is the biggest liberal I have ever met. So, it is not just us right-wingers saying the same thing. Notice I had said that only if the language was screamed louldly, would I even warn someone.

Out here W, we have coaches that will write you up if you say the word sh*t in a conversational manner. They will go to your board and say you were swearing on the field. I've said "Coach, that's a bunch of bullsh*t, and you know it", and gotten ratted out. So, it goes both ways. We don't allow a lot of cussing at the youth ball level. Period.

Oh, and Moses penned the first 5 books of the Bible. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
Exodus 20:7 is the location of the name in vain rule.
By the way, this is a predominately Christian nation, as it was founded. Just read any major document from the era of our nations birth, and it is beyond obvious that God was intended to govern every aspect of our lives. I'm not preaching, just citing history.

[BigUmp56]

So tell us Windy, how are we supposed to determine what is profane and what is not?

The very definition of the word describes an irreverance toward God, does it not?

You'll find words like, unholy, heathen, pagan, and vulgar in the definition of profane.

You'll also find the word obscene in the definition of profane. That would include, offensive, lewd, abominable, disgusting, and repulsive.

It would seem to me that the definition of what constitutes profanity gives us a heck of a lot of latitude when it comes to inserting our "moral values" into the equation.

If they use the words "jesuschrist" or "goddamn" in a game that I'm working, they have offended me, and that's enough for me to send them to the showers.

Tim.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Steve,
I am not directing this post to you and do not need another reply. I've witnessed your arguments and need a respite.



Others:
Did I miss the lesson on Moses writing any part of the Bible? Further, I checked the Bible and the Ten Commandments were given to Moses by God. He didn't write those either.

We live in a Christian based society and have a strong moral presence in the White House. I could not find any mention of Christianity in any baseball rulebook. Do you know of any?

How many of you would eject a player for muttering "goddamn", "jesuschrist", "allah", "satan" or "notitia"? What if they yelled one of those things in exasperation but it was directed at themselves or a teammate?

How many of you are really worried about what coaches think?

For the record, I'm a christian but not an evangelist. I keep my personal life off the ball field and expect the coach and contestants to do the same.

[DG]

Originally posted by greymule
Since most schools playing under Fed receive government money in some way or another, a high school player mimicking a major-leaguer and pointing skyward is apparently violating the U.S. Constitution. In the spirit of political correctness, and to avoid stressing atheists, perhaps Fed should prohibit any ballfield action that might be interpreted as acknowledging the existence of God.

It would seem to me that the player is exhibiting his constitutional right to free speech under the first amendment, but then I'm no lawyer either. I don't see how he is violating the constitution.

[greymule]

It would seem to me that the player is exhibiting his constitutional right to free speech under the first amendment, but then I'm no lawyer either. I don't see how he is violating the constitution.

Of course you are right, DG. I began the thread with the post about the crackpot who wants some kind of redress because he feels "stressed" when a ballplayer points to the sky. I facetiously suggested that Fed will have to institute a new rule to suit the sensibilities of such people.

However, the fact that so many people took me seriously is an indication of how far America has sunk in efforts to avoid making anyone feel uncomfortable or, rather, to accommodate every screwball who thinks the U.S. Constitution guarantees him the right not to feel "stressed." I see where a school district has banned witch costumes on Halloween because they don't want to permit, in the school board's words, "the Christian sexist demonization of pagan religious beliefs." (Oops, that was in Canada, but the same kind of thing goes on in the U.S., where kindergarten classrooms are forbidden to put decorative snowflakes on the windows or use red and green napkins at that unmentionable time of the year that centers on the 25th day of December.)

I wonder whether the crackpot who doesn't like to see players point to the sky knows what he is really saying when he bids someone "goodbye."

[SanDiegoSteve]

W Blue, don't hand me that "I'm not directing this at you" crap. You most certainly are, since it was I who posted the Moses reference, not the "others".

Moses, who wrote in the third person, wrote the book of Genesis in approximately 1445 B.C. He did not have a ghost writer. Ask any bible scholar, such as Jack Van Impe, or R.C. Sproul. And I never said that Moses created the Ten Commandments, as they were given to him by God.

End of discussion for me.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

I really didn't want to hear from you about this again. You have made it painfully clear where you stand and I don't see too many people rushing to your side, for christsakes.

I called my cousin and asked him. He laughed when I asked if Moses wrote any part of the Bible. He asked if I thought he also made the crop circles?

My cousin just celebrated twenty eight years as a Roman Catholic priest. He is pretty qualifed to speak about the Bible. The Old Testament is the accepted part of the bible to the Jew. I'll ask them about the ghostwritten first five books. I'm pretty sure I know the answer.


DG and Greymule,

I agree that this is foolhardy at best. I don't care what side of the aisle you sit (it seems obvious, though), this is a conservative politician's wet dream. "BANNING GOD FROM OUR SPORTING EVENTS? NEVER!!!!"

This is not giving the finger or a throat slash, he might be pointing up at God, a cloud or a mosquito that buzzed by his ear. Who cares? Six calls to make, let's get them right and go home. I need a cold one!

[PWL]

Personally, I think the vast majority just do this for show. I don't think they have any religious agenda at all. They've seen their "role models" do it on TV. The way America is today, Jesus would have people all over his butt for being too much of a liberal.

[JRutledge]

All "Allah" means is "God." The word is not specific to Muslims or only used by Muslims.

The funny thing about religion is the fact that Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in the same tenants of morality, they just do not believe in whom God is and when he arrived. Jews believe that God has not come to earth and any human form. Christians believe that Jesus came to wash away their sins. Muslims do not believe Jesus was their Lord and Savior, but that Muhammad came to earth to teach the word of God (It is obviously more complicated than that, just work with me on this one). So any discussion of religion and values are going to be all over the place. Let alone the many Christian religions that do not even practice the same way. I am as Christian as they come but I do not worship the same way as a Catholic or understand all the ways they worship. Should I get upset at a player that does something that is not supported by my way of worship too? See where this can go. What about those religions that Native Americans believe in or other spiritual understanding. I have always found it silly that Christians get so upset over what happens in their religions and do not understand what might be offensive in other's religions, then want to take that crap to the field, court or diamond to penalize infractions based on their personal religious actions.

Peace

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by greymule
From the Los Angeles Times: California atheist Stuart Bechman, likening the climate of today to that of the McCarthy era, says he "feels stress when a major-leaguer points skyward after a hit."

Then I suggest that when you see this, Mr. Bechman, you stick the index finger of your right hand up your a$$ and twirl it around until you see the light!

Since most schools playing under Fed receive government money in some way or another, a high school player mimicking a major-leaguer and pointing skyward is apparently violating the U.S. Constitution. In the spirit of political correctness, and to avoid stressing atheists, perhaps Fed should prohibit any ballfield action that might be interpreted as acknowledging the existence of God.

There's already a Fed rule against "simulating tobacco use." They could simply add "simulating belief in God."

It is not a violation of the US Constitution. We forget that those who wrote the Constitution were religious men themselves. This whole BS about religion being offensive is just that - a bunch a BS from a bunch of whiney, pi$$heads that only think of "me, myself and I". These people cannot function in society because they are always "offended" by one thing or another. Well I say take all the offence you want but leave the gate!

Funny, people seem to be offended by the words God and Jesus Christ but when the end comes you would be suprised how many of these pi$$heads that denied God all their lives, call on Him to stop the pain when the end comes!

[TBBlue]

Originally posted by PWL
The way America is today, Jesus would have people all over his butt for being too much of a liberal.

You are 100% correct. The interesting thing is, back in the day, roughly 2000 years ago, people were all over his butt for being too liberal, and going against the "institution" of the church. They even killed him over it.