Ditched my indicator for good.

[edhern]

I haven't used an indicator behind the plate for about four years. I find it easier to lock in and remove the mask when I have to. There are occassional lost counts, but it is rare. Oddly, I use one on the bases, more to have something to play with and keep my hands occupied.

Ed H.

[jicecone]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Emerling

[i] ... especially if there is a scoreboard at the park that seems to be competently operated.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

You mean you actually have some of those in your neighborhood. We have a stadium where the scoreboard operator is also a news writer. He likes to write articles about the officials that do the Legion games. Need I say, they are not about all of our best calls. If he was as good at running the score board as he is his mouth, well, need I say more.

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by gordon30307
I haven't used an indicator on the field for a long time. During the fallball season I decided to experiment going without an indicator behind the plate. I found that:

1. My focus on the game improved.
2. Never a reason to take your eyes off the field and I focused more on the pitcher for balks etc.
3. Lost the count on only a few occaisions. And when I did I was able to figure out what it should be and found that I could more easily remember the sequence of pitches without rather than with the indicator.

Works for me and I recommend that you give it a try.

Glad it works for you. But then there are those of us whose associations request that both umpires use an indicator. I really don't have a problem with using one as it is not the focus of my attention. In other words, it is a tool not a crutch. Too many umpires pay more attention to the indicator than they do to the game - enough said.

Besides, not using an indicator doesn't make you a better umpire. Many pride themselves with keeping the count in your heads and parade around with your chests puffed out. But when the count is truly lost, a coach will give you less crap if he at least sees this indicator in your hand! He'll still think you are useless but he may forget it quicker! (heh, heh, heh!!)

[JJ]

I only look at the scoreboard to see what inning it is - NEVER for the count. Too unreliable. I always use a counter on the plate - many years ago I lost track of the count in a Big Ten game...the scoreboard differed from my counter, and my partners were no help (thanks guys). I got the guy from each team who was charting pitches (usually a pitcher on his day off), and from that info got it correct.
On the bases, I always carry one with me, but only use it if my plate guy doesn't flash the count regularly (something we discuss in pregame), or if it's brutal baseball and my mind wants to wander. I've had plate guys lose the count and look to me for help, and when the coach says "That's not right" I just hold up my counter. Once he sees I've got it on the hardware and that I'm not guessing or blindly agreeing with my partner, he backs off.
Having said all that, I seldom actually look at my counter. I know what the count is 99+% of the time. It's that .001+/-% I like to have it for confirmation.

JJ

[bluehair]

Originally posted by jicecone
When you don't use the indaclickercounter, you tend to concentrate more on what the count is, because mentally you know that you don't have any backup to rely on.

I agree that this is a personal perference, but the reason that you give for not using an indicator, is exactly the reason that do use one. I don't want to have to concentrate on keeping the count. I would rather be concentrating on what might happen on the next pitch. To me, how the count got to 2-2 is inmaterial to what might happen on a 2-2 pitch.

I also have limited mental capacity. When my head is full, there is no more room for additional info.

Diiferent Strokes for Different Folks

[Edited by bluehair on Oct 29th, 2005 at 09:27 AM]

[jicecone]

Originally posted by bluehair

I agree that this is a personal perference, but the reason that you give for not using an indicator, is exactly the reason that do use one. I don't want to have to concentrate on keeping the count. I would rather be concentrating on what might happen on the next pitch. To me, how the count got to 2-2 is inmaterial to what might happen on a 2-2 pitch.

I also have limited mental capacity. When my head is full, there is no more room for additional info.

Well I am not sure what the difference is between remembering a number or remembering to tell your hand to change a number, either way is acceptable and if it works for you, that is fine.

I did notice that I had to change to a larger size hat once I started to do this. But it certainly wasn't the first time I was accused of having a "Big Head".

[bluehair]

Originally posted by jicecone
I did notice that I had to change to a larger size hat once I started to do this. But it certainly wasn't the first time I was accused of having a "Big Head".

Maybe the hat size is my problem. Perhaps if I got one a bit looser, I could fit more in my head. Thanks for the tip

[BigUmp56]

Personally, I always use an indicator now. I've tried to work a few games without one, and ran into some trouble when I did.

The problem I have working without an indicator is largely because of plays made on runners while a batter still has an early count.

There were too many times that a pickoff attempt lead to a rundown situation where my attention was turned to the continuing action on the runner/runners. After the play relaxed and I returned to the dish, I would look at the batter and then realize the same player was still up to bat.

Then, I would have to ask myself what the heck was the count on this guy.

Maybe I'm just feeble minded, or maybe the 70's were just too good to me!

Tim.

[David Emerling]

Originally posted by BigUmp56

Personally, I always use an indicator now. I've tried to work a few games without one, and ran into some trouble when I did.

The problem I have working without an indicator is largely because of plays made on runners while a batter still has an early count.

There were too many times that a pickoff attempt lead to a rundown situation where my attention was turned to the continuing action on the runner/runners. After the play relaxed and I returned to the dish, I would look at the batter and then realize the same player was still up to bat.

Then, I would have to ask myself what the heck was the count on this guy.

Maybe I'm just feeble minded, or maybe the 70's were just too good to me!

Tim.

Don't feel bad, Tim. I've done the exact same thing and what's worse - after the rundown/play is over - I'll reset my indicator, get back to the plate area, and *then* realize the same batter is up.

I'm ashamed to say, often times I just ask the batter or catcher as if I'm just verifying but, in fact, I have no clue. :-)

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Diamondgal]

Don't feel bad, Tim. I've done the exact same thing and what's worse - after the rundown/play is over - I'll reset my indicator, get back to the plate area, and *then* realize the same batter is up.

Ben dere dun dat!

[jicecone]

Originally posted by David Emerling

Don't feel bad, Tim. I've done the exact same thing and what's worse - after the rundown/play is over - I'll reset my indicator, get back to the plate area, and *then* realize the same batter is up.

I'm ashamed to say, often times I just ask the batter or catcher as if I'm just verifying but, in fact, I have no clue. :-)

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Exactly the same procedure I used with or without an indicator.

"OK, we got 2-2 here, right." You'll be surprised how fast someone will speak up.

With the indicator I used to get, "Come on Blue , get into the game."

Now, "Hey Blue, if you had an indicator you would have had it right."

Coach Oxy Moron always had to get his two cents in. But it use to be fun telling him, "That will be enough, Moron."

[David Emerling]

Originally posted by jicecone

Exactly the same procedure I used with or without an indicator.

"OK, we got 2-2 here, right." You'll be surprised how fast someone will speak up.

The players are usually incredibly honest when it comes to the count and it never occurs to them to lie. I don't think I've ever had a batter and catcher disagree on the count.

Hell, with very young players, sometimes I'll come right out and ask if a marginal pitch hit them. They never lie.

If Jermaine Dye were 9-yrs-old, I would have simply asked, "Did that ball hit you?" And I guarantee you his reply would have been, "No, sir." And *I* would've got the call right! :-)

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

even though I am 'only' a softball ump, I find not using an indicator incredulous- do you also not wear a cup behind the dish because youve never gotten hit in the conjones??? To also say 'I've only forgotten the counts/outs a couple of times' is close to blasephmy as far as I am concerned- there you have failed in THE most basic part of your job....

And to call those who ARE trying to do the job properly names only reinforces what I think is nothing but ego driven hubris (look it up!)-there IS gonna be a time its gonna cost ya..we drill that into our newbies in our clinic ALL the time-ALWAYS be prepared....and that includes an INDICATOR...I dont care how good your memory supposedly is..and how many scoreboards there are at the ballpark-YOUR scoreboard (the indicator) is the only PROOF of the count/outs-many times I use it to show a batter- yes, it was a strike..this thing only goes ONE way...

and on the bases it is so automatic I call an out,I click an out with the other hand,even on both ends of a DP...wow...real tough

I always wonder if those who dont use indicators are the same ones who never look at their speedometers.....or who never ask directions,as they KNOW where they are going....

I consider it a SKILL to be able to use an indicator...and walk at the same time....

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally posted by David Emerling

The players are usually incredibly honest when it comes to the count and it never occurs to them to lie. I don't think I've ever had a batter and catcher disagree on the count.

Hell, with very young players, sometimes I'll come right out and ask if a marginal pitch hit them. They never lie.

If Jermaine Dye were 9-yrs-old, I would have simply asked, "Did that ball hit you?" And I guarantee you his reply would have been, "No, sir." And *I* would've got the call right! :-)

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

If you were a cop, would you ask someone if they were speeding..and how fast they were going??

'I know I pulled you over sir,but exactly how fast WERE you going???'

yes i am being sarcastic..but ...

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE
even though I am 'only' a softball ump, I find not using an indicator incredulous- do you also not wear a cup behind the dish because youve never gotten hit in the conjones???

ASA,

Believe or not I know a couple umpires who quit wearing a cup because they felt more comfortable. Wait until they take one in the jewels!!! One of those same guys also wears base shoes working the plate. I guess he likes tempting fate, but it seems nuts to me.

If someone can work the dish without an indicator, go for it. I left mine home once, and worked the game without it, but I didn't care for it much at all.

Most umpires I know do not use indicators on the bases, but for new guys it probably is a good idea.