Phil Cuzzi...

[kcs_hiker]

Originally posted by jicecone

Don't have a problem with "intentional" Peter, I have had to utilize that form of getting a message across myself, in some games.

My point, was the implication that umpires make calls because of some subliminal reason that no one can explain, as kcs_hiker was trying to imply here.

Subliminal is your word not mine. I suggested that Cuzzi knew that he had missed the ball three call, and was making up for it on the next pitch. I mentioned that umpires are probably not even aware that they do that... else then they wouldn't do it.

You then called me clueless, and said that an umpire who thought about previous pitches wasn't going to get any of them right... I don't agree with the clueless part, but I agree with the second half of your statement. That's what I thought Cuzzi did... it's what it looked like he did. What's your explanation?

edited to add: after rereading your post, I wonder if you are suggesting that Cuzzi INTENTIONALLY called that pitch a strike so as to send a message? Kinda like our home-town Smitty calling slow-pitch who called a pitch over a batters head a strike and then said to him 'how do you like that' after the batter questioned strike two?

[Edited by kcs_hiker on Oct 17th, 2005 at 01:42 PM]

[JRutledge]

I am amazed that people think they can behave in any way they like because in their mind a bad call was made. LaRussa was totally in the wrong. First of all he did not have a good angle (how could he) at the pitch. He started yelling and screaming at the umpire about ball and strikes (a BIG NO NO). Then Edmonds then starts calling names and getting personal with the umpire (ANOTHER NO NO). Cuzzi gave both of them ample time to back down and they choose to pursue him even more. He did not just pull the trigger, he commented to give them a chance to back down. When they did not, they were run. I think he did a good job. No matter what you think about those pitches, he does not have to take that from them.

BTW, I am a big Cardinals fan. I think the umpire had every right to throw them out of the game. The Cardinals had a meltdown similar to what happen in the 85 World Series. Edmonds really should have been ashamed of himself; he might have got a hit to tie the game. Now he lets his team down and makes a teammate the bat when he was not prepared to hit. He started the count with a 3-2 count. Shame on Edmonds for getting thrown out of the game. He should have known better.

Peace

[gordon30307]

Subliminal is your word not mine. I suggested that Cuzzi knew that he had missed the ball three call, and was making up for it on the next pitch. I mentioned that umpires are probably not even aware that they do that... else then they wouldn't do it.

The dumbest thing any umpire can do from Little League to the Show is to do a "make up call". Now instead of having one team mad at you now both are made at you and are afraid of what you're going to do next! It's taught in Umpireing 101 don't even think about doing a "make-up call" These guys are the best of the best. But, even the best miss calls. Good calls bad calls are part of the game. Good teams know this and put it behind them and go on to the next play.

[ozzy6900]

I love when people get down on the MLB umpires! Well to kcs_hiker and those who agree with him, let me ask you some questions.

Have you ever blown a call?

Have you ever second guessed yourself?

Now while you answer these questions let me add to them:

What level of ball do you call?

And when you blow a call or second guess yourself:

Are your spectators numbered on one hand or are you umpiring in from of millions?

As I thought, most of you have a hand full of people watching your games. Sometimes, the players out number the spectators, don't they?

Some of you only hear the groans of LL mommies and daddies. Some of us went a bit farther and officiate High School and NCAA.

The point is this. A very high percentage of us will never see an MLB field except to be a spectator at a game. You cannot compare your umpiring experiences to that of a MLB umpire in the hopes of judging him. They, the players and the Game itself are on a different plane then any of us could hope to be on.

Another thing, I don't know about you, but my satellite provider does not mike the dugout or home plate area, so how can any of you know what was really said. It seems that many of you rely on the announcers who are guessing themselves.

Do us all a favor, umpire your level and when you can do as good a job as an MLB umpire, go to school and let's see if you can make the grade.

[mattmets]

Originally posted by ozzy6900
Do us all a favor, umpire your level and when you can do as good a job as an MLB umpire, go to school and let's see if you can make the grade.

I plan on doing exactly that when I get out of school

[Jay R]

I don't know why Cuzzi called that pitch Strike Two on Edmonds. Clearly high and inside. Perhaps to send a message, perhaps a make-up call or he just missed it. Either way, Edmonds went too far and that's his responsibility.

But I do know this. The previous pitch (2-1) was an obvious strike that was called Ball Three. The catcher Ausmus quickly came up like he was going to throw to first base and Cuzzi seemed to lose his balance, stumbled a bit. I was really surprised that it was a ball and I was even more surprised that Fox didn't show the replay as part of the spectacle that followed.

JP

[kcs_hiker]

Originally posted by ozzy6900
I love when people get down on the MLB umpires! Well to kcs_hiker and those who agree with him, let me ask you some questions.

Have you ever blown a call?

Have you ever second guessed yourself?

Now while you answer these questions let me add to them:

What level of ball do you call?

And when you blow a call or second guess yourself:

Are your spectators numbered on one hand or are you umpiring in from of millions?

As I thought, most of you have a hand full of people watching your games. Sometimes, the players out number the spectators, don't they?

Some of you only hear the groans of LL mommies and daddies. Some of us went a bit farther and officiate High School and NCAA.

The point is this. A very high percentage of us will never see an MLB field except to be a spectator at a game. You cannot compare your umpiring experiences to that of a MLB umpire in the hopes of judging him. They, the players and the Game itself are on a different plane then any of us could hope to be on.

Another thing, I don't know about you, but my satellite provider does not mike the dugout or home plate area, so how can any of you know what was really said. It seems that many of you rely on the announcers who are guessing themselves.

Do us all a favor, umpire your level and when you can do as good a job as an MLB umpire, go to school and let's see if you can make the grade.

Absolutely have I blown calls and second guessed myself... but I get 50$ a game while Cuzzi makes 100k a year. And I'm not down on Cuzzi really. My comments are more in the nature of observations really. And as I said, LaRussa and Edmonds probably needed to be run... but as I also said, it seemed apparent to me that Cuzzi got a bit rattled and that made his 'errors' in judgement a bit more obvious.

Jeez... you don't need to be a famous chef to recognize bad food, nor do you need to be a MLB umpire to recognize bad umpiring... I imagine that Phil Cuzzi is probably being much harder on himself than any of us are.

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by Jay R
I don't know why Cuzzi called that pitch Strike Two on Edmonds. Clearly high and inside. Perhaps to send a message, perhaps a make-up call or he just missed it. Either way, Edmonds went too far and that's his responsibility.

But I do know this. The previous pitch (2-1) was an obvious strike that was called Ball Three. The catcher Ausmus quickly came up like he was going to throw to first base and Cuzzi seemed to lose his balance, stumbled a bit. I was really surprised that it was a ball and I was even more surprised that Fox didn't show the replay as part of the spectacle that followed.

JP

If the best place to call balls and strikes was from a video monitor in the press box that's where the PU would be. The angle shown on TV is not the best one to judge balls and strikes. The don't call it "The best seat they have in the house but you have to stand" for nothing.

[umpduck11]

So it's ok for you to make a mistake,or miss a
call making $50 per game,while MLB umpires should
be perfect because of the money they make? I'm
glad I don't work for you in my day job.

[kcs_hiker]

Originally posted by Jay R
I don't know why Cuzzi called that pitch Strike Two on Edmonds. Clearly high and inside. Perhaps to send a message, perhaps a make-up call or he just missed it. Either way, Edmonds went too far and that's his responsibility.

But I do know this. The previous pitch (2-1) was an obvious strike that was called Ball Three. The catcher Ausmus quickly came up like he was going to throw to first base and Cuzzi seemed to lose his balance, stumbled a bit. I was really surprised that it was a ball and I was even more surprised that Fox didn't show the replay as part of the spectacle that followed.

JP

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that.

[kcs_hiker]

Originally posted by umpduck11

So it's ok for you to make a mistake,or miss a
call making $50 per game,while MLB umpires should
be perfect because of the money they make? I'm
glad I don't work for you in my day job.

Huh? That doesn't make sense.

It's not ok for me to miss a call at my level. Where did I say that? But if I miss a call it's because I'm an amateur umpire who doesn't go to school every year... and besides, I'm still human. What's a MLB's umpires excuse?

[jicecone]

Originally posted by kcs_hiker

Huh? That doesn't make sense.

But if I miss a call it's because I'm an amateur umpire who doesn't go to school every year... and besides, I'm still human.

kcs_hiker, don't try to understand it, it's not intentional, your probably just trying to make up for a call you got right once. Nothing you can do about it, it just happens that way, I'm sure you understand that.

[kcs_hiker]

Originally posted by jicecone

kcs_hiker, don't try to understand it, it's not intentional, your probably just trying to make up for a call you got right once. Nothing you can do about it, it just happens that way, I'm sure you understand that.

Huh? Ohhhhh I get it... you're still stuck on that subliminal thing. Cool, new word, huh? Been looking for a place to use it all week I bet.

Let me ask you seriously. Are you this much of an a** to everybody or is it just newer posters who say something that you disagree with? Course I notice that you never once tried to actually answer my point... preferring rather to insult and jeer... bet that works well in your umpiring world too.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by kcs_hiker

Huh? Ohhhhh I get it... you're still stuck on that subliminal thing. Cool, new word, huh? Been looking for a place to use it all week I bet.

Let me ask you seriously. Are you this much of an a** to everybody or is it just newer posters who say something that you disagree with? Course I notice that you never once tried to actually answer my point... preferring rather to insult and jeer... bet that works well in your umpiring world too.

Oh, I understood and answered your point alright. You just haven't realized it. And then, when the same type of logic was used towards you, you still failed to comprehend how absurd your original point really was.

[kcs_hiker]

Let me ask you seriously. Are you this much of an a**?

apparently yes.