Gerry Davis stance

[GarthB]

Originally posted by DG
One problem I have seen from many umpires I work with is that they only call strikes where the ball is above the knee. The zone goes to the hollow beneath the knee, and any part of the ball can go through that line. So a ball that can appear to be below the knee can be a strike. Every coach who has seen me work will tell his players that I will call a low strike so be swinging. I guess they are right.

The problem with that wording, "hollow beneath...." is that many umpires and most coaches don't know what it means. It is not a point below the knee.

[johnSandlin]

I was referring to calling strikes at the knees by Davis, Barrett, and Rapuano. Sorry for the confussion.

[bkbjones]

Originally posted by johnSandlin
I was referring to calling strikes at the knees by Davis, Barrett, and Rapuano. Sorry for the confussion.

We wuz all confussed.

[BT_Blue]

Ive used the Gerry Davis stance for the most part over the last approx three years. The only time I can remember getting hit a bunch was because I happened to be so far back. I would say I am closer than most that use the GD stance to the catcher (maybe 3/4 of an arm length away from the catcher). The only trouble I have right now is concentrating on the pitch down and away. It is the one pitch I truely have to work at. I do like the fact that I now have a great view of the pitch up in the zone.

I do find myself sometimes going back to the heel-toe stance when I am struggling with the GD stance since I sometimes have to "go back to basics" but for the most part the GD stance is a staple for me.

[BT_Blue]

When I find that I get hit multiple times in a row it seems that I am to far back (as in almost 2 arm lengths or more) I also was working behind some less experienced (enter the words younger here) catchers at the time.

The worst hit I took on the arm was a tip that hit me right on the outside of the elbow. Bruised me up pretty good but as always that was just a freak thing.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by BT_Blue
When I find that I get hit multiple times in a row it seems that I am to far back (as in almost 2 arm lengths or more) I also was working behind some less experienced (enter the words younger here) catchers at the time.

The worst hit I took on the arm was a tip that hit me right on the outside of the elbow. Bruised me up pretty good but as always that was just a freak thing.

If you'd been just a bit farther back, you wouldn't have been hit on that play -- the ball would have had time to move farther to the outside.

Conversely, if you were closer, you still would have been hit -- but in a different spot.

Looking *only* at getting hit -- if you are closer to the catcher (and more "behind" him), he will block more of the balls that might hit you. If you are further back, the balls will disperse more, and fewer will hit you.

My theory: An umpire tries out a new stance in a "lesser" game. For a LL umpire, that might mean trying the stance in an 8-9 yr. old game, not the Major championship game. For someone who works HS and college, he might try the stance in a JV game, but wouldn't likley try something new in his first D-I game.

The pitching and catching is of lesser quality in these games, so the umpire gets hit more. The umpire, who is focused on evaluating the stance, gets hit more -- and blames the stance.

[papablue]

I took up GD at the beginning of this season, and noticed an immediate improvement on the fatigue factor and back strain. But I have always been leary about foul tips or stray pitches catching my exposed slot hand.

So I begin experimenting with wrapping the hands back behind the thighs when the pitcher is in mid-delivery, at the same time "dropping the seat" so I would lose minimal, if any, head height.

[jwwashburn]

I am a HS BB Umpire and training and clinics around here (SE Michigan) are few and far between.

Any hints on where I can learn this system?

Thanks.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by jwwashburn
I am a HS BB Umpire and training and clinics around here (SE Michigan) are few and far between.

Any hints on where I can learn this system?

Thanks.

From an earlier post in this thread by Deleware Blue:

"Go here. http://childress.officiating.com/ There are two articles about the Gerry Davis stance by Mr. Childress under Working the Plate."

[BT_Blue]

I learned how to work the Davis stance through the Childress article. Dispite the large amount of clinics here in Southern California, due to powers beyond my control I have not had formal training in the Davis stance. Hopefully that will change this weekend.

Dispite that... I feel this is the best stance/system I have ever used and will continue using it.

[gotblue?]

The Childress article notes that it is possible to use the Gerry Davis system with either the balanced or heel/toe stance, with a recommendation to use balanced.

I am a LL umpire, and in a recent fall game, I decided to try out the system, but did so with my usual heel/toe stance. I liked what I saw quite a bit. Keeping the same stance may make for a more natural progression for me.

Has anyone tried both the balanced and heel/toe stances with the system, and, if so, can you offer pros and cons?

Also, as Bob Jenkins notes above, I decided to try this in a fall game where the outcome mattered little. I did not get hit with any foul balls or miscaught pitches, but I found that I got a greater general awareness as to how shaky LL catchers are, in terms of catching mechanics. This forced me to really, really lock into the stance, so as to not get fidgety about balls coming through.

[ChapJim]

Originally posted by gotblue?
Has anyone tried both the balanced and heel/toe stances with the system, and, if so, can you offer pros and cons?

Frankly, I think GDS and "heel to toe" are mutually exclusive.

The principal argument for a "heel to toe" stance (non-GDS) is that it makes it possible to see the pitch into the glove with both eyes. This is not an issue with the GDS because you don't go monocular.

My first several games with GDS were a bunch of 13-year old AAU doubles with first year umpires. I did one half of an inning with my inside eye closed (right eye for right-handed batters) to see if I could still see the pitch. I could. Not necessarily all the way into the glove because you might not see that anyway. The point is that you can stand square without losing anything.

GDS instructions say to stand square and put your nose on the inside edge of the plate, which would be tough to do if you were pointed toward the second baseman. You want to be zeroed in on the inside edge of the plate because that becomes your reference if the catcher sets up inside and you lose sight of the plate.

[papablue]

Originally posted by gotblue?
Has anyone tried both the balanced and heel/toe stances with the system, and, if so, can you offer pros and cons?

In Carl Childress' second GDS article (http://childress.officiating.com/?d=Working+the+Plate&f=Gerry+Davis+Part+II.pdf), he offers a good reason for going with a balanced stance versus heel-to-toe, having to do with seeing the pitch better with both eyes as it arrives at the plate. He provides a reference (but, I think, no link) to an article regarding "The Monocular Vision Theory."

I've been using the balanced stance exclusively with GD. For me, keeping square to the pitcher seems more natural.

[phillips.alex]

i have tried both the heel-toe and balanced, and i am definately more comfortable in the balanced davis stance. I am square to the pitcher, and can distance myself a bit further back from the catcher, allowing me to call a better low zone, as well as reducing the chance of a catcher running into me. The best part of it, however, is that there is less strain on my neck and back, keeping me up and ready all day

alex

[DG]

I just saw Joe West get hit in the head by a bat on a backswing. I don't think that would happen with GD system because PU would be farther back.

I don't worry about getting hit. It's part of the job, and mostly unavoidable. I recall getting hit in the face mask one time this year with a fast ball in a 4A varsity HS game. It was not a foul ball, but the catcher did not get a glove on it. I tracked it right from the pitcher's hand to my mask, as I was locked in the GD. The mask leaped off my head and landed at my feet and I looked at the catcher and said "is that the best you can do?".

I also suffered my first broken bone this year, a broken pinky finger on my left hand. It was in the first inning of the first game of a college double header. Inside pitch the catcher did not get a glove on. This was in February before I had fully converted to GD.

I don't think I get hit any more or less in GD system than before. But I also don't worry about getting hit any more or less.