Just Had To Ask

[Rich Ives]

Found on the SB board.

"OK guys what do we have??

Tie game, Home team last inning bases loaded batter hits home-run over fence with 1 out R1 from 3rd comes in touches home PU calls "BALL GAME" none of the other runners complete their run to the next base, players line up in the field of play, umpires still on the field, pitcher comes over makes proper appeals on runners not going to next base.

2 Outs on R2 and R3 by force, tie ball game? or

Game over run scores when PU calls "BALL GAME" umpire mistake. Would visitors be able to protest it umpire did not grant the appeals or home team if umpire held up the appeals??"

- - - - -

Methinks we have a home team win in baseball - is softball different enought o warrant the two page debate on the SB board?

[Edited by Rich Ives on Apr 30th, 2001 at 11:59 AM]

[blarson]

4.09
HOW A TEAM SCORES. (b) When the winning run is scored in the last half inning of a regulation game, or in the last half of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases full which forces the runner on third to advance, the umpire shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has touched home base and the batter runner has touched first base.

If they appeal R1 (your example I think meant R3 scroed) and R2 I'm not sure what they have. If they appeal BR, we have out #2. After that I'm getting hazy. Do we have them out for abandoment if they are in the dugout? Also how does the umpire calling "ball game" have any bearing on it. I can see where offense has a point, but I'm not sure how to rectify it.

Bob

[oppool]

Just to clarify for you baseball umps in softball R1 would be the lead runner I believe in your rules that would be R3

So
R1=R3 runner at third
R2=R2 runner at 2nd
R3=R1 runner at 1st

Hopefully this will help you understand

This was in a Men's league the umpires on the softball forum felt even though the PU errored in calling "BALLGAME" early it didnt relieve the offensive team of their base running responibilities so the appeal of the defensive team would be upheld and extra inning would be played


Thanks

Don

[blarson]

Thanks for the clarification Don, forgive my ignorace on that one.

[Rich Ives]

Here's my thought in baseball.

Applicable rule is 4.11

The game is over when the winning run scores.

On a game winning HR, the other runners are PERMITTED to score. I think this was only added to credit the hitter with the HR and RBI, not to make it a requirement.

Approved ruling has a case where the batter (Joe Adcock, for example) passes another runner and is called out, the game ends immediately when the winning run scores.

Therefore - no appeals - no outs gained - home wins.

What is different about softball that is causing the great debate?

[mick]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
Here's my thought in baseball.

Applicable rule is 4.11

The game is over when the winning run scores.

On a game winning HR, the other runners are PERMITTED to score. I think this was only added to credit the hitter with the HR and RBI, not to make it a requirement.

Approved ruling has a case where the batter (Joe Adcock, for example) passes another runner and is called out, the game ends immediately when the winning run scores.

Therefore - no appeals - no outs gained - home wins.

What is different about softball that is causing the great debate?

Rich,
Doesn't the B/R have to touch 1st?
mick

[oppool]

Baseball Guys

I am assuming this is the same in baseball, on this post the reason for the problems are that since the runners didnt advance to the next base and the bases were loaded you have force outs on the play and since the runners were forced no run can count that the reason the appeals put the game into extra innings


Don

I believe in OBR as long as the R3 scores and the BR touches first that's all that's required. With it being a HR I don't know it changes anything.

[Rich Ives]

Situation here was 1 out. So call B-R out for not touching first and you still have only two outs and R3 still scored. Per 4.09 none of the others are required to advance. The penalty for 4.09 says "before two are out, the B-R refuses to advance to and touch first the run shall count but the offending player shall be called out.

I still got a home victory.

[Gre144]

We had a situation here in Colorado where an umpire nullified a grand slam because players came out on the field to congratualate the HR hitter before he touched home. The umpire nullified the score because he said that they can't assist a runner as he is rounding the bases. I guess he almost started a riot by his literal interpretation of the rules. Our area supervisor suggested that common sense should always prevail. Give the guy a homerun and a victory despite what the rules says unless you want to cause a riot.

Greg

[mikesears]

Originally posted by Gre144
We had a situation here in Colorado where an umpire nullified a grand slam because players came out on the field to congratualate the HR hitter before he touched home. The umpire nullified the score because he said that they can't assist a runner as he is rounding the bases. I guess he almost started a riot by his literal interpretation of the rules. Our area supervisor suggested that common sense should always prevail. Give the guy a homerun and a victory despite what the rules says unless you want to cause a riot.

Greg

And to add to this, how can you assist the runner by "high-fiving" him?? To assist is to provide aid to the runner. By pickig him up or stopping him or dragging him to the bag, etc.

Just my two cents