Umpire incompetence - mine

[officialtony]

From the start I will admit I blew it.
What I am concerned about was trying to do the " right " thing after I blew it.
Here goes . . . .
Fed rules, R2 no outs. I am PU and BU is in C ( of course ). B1 hits a slow roller to F1 between F1 and F3. F1 makes a throw to F3 who is trying to get to the bag with the ball. I am watching the play from the 3rd base side of the plate in case R2 decides to come home. All of a sudden BU looks at me and points without making any call at 1st. I'm thinking " Crap, he is straightlined and can't ( didn't ) see the play at 1st." So . . . . I step forward and make the out call since I saw it clearly. But having stepped forward, I am now in the fair territory between 3rd and Home. And here it comes. F3 is throwing home to try to get R2 who is trying to score from 2nd. Train wreck. R2 brushes by me going to the plate and the catcher hits me reaching out for the throw. I got caught up in making the call at 1st and forgot about R2. R2 scores and the defensive coach is on me for interfering. He wants me to put the runner back on 3rd. I know I cannot do that even though I am thinking about it. I admitted I blew it but that I am part of the field and so the play stands as it ended. I recognize how many things I did wrong in that short time span, but I am most concerned with my final decision to let the play stand as it unfolded.
Was that the right thing to do?

My partner felt bad afterwards, but no matter where he put me, I still blew my mechanics. I just want to be sure I followed proper procedure when I let the play stand as it ended up.

Thanks in advance.

[ozzy6900]

That is the fault with the 2 man system. Something has to give. You and your partner cannot cover everything so $hit happens and you move on.

By the way, because of the call at 1st, the best place to be would have been in front of home plate but that's hind sight.

[Rich]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by officialtony
From the start I will admit I blew it.
What I am concerned about was trying to do the " right " thing after I blew it.
Here goes . . . .
Fed rules, R2 no outs. I am PU and BU is in C ( of course ). B1 hits a slow roller to F1 between F1 and F3. F1 makes a throw to F3 who is trying to get to the bag with the ball. I am watching the play from the 3rd base side of the plate in case R2 decides to come home. All of a sudden BU looks at me and points without making any call at 1st. I'm thinking " Crap, he is straightlined and can't ( didn't ) see the play at 1st." So . . . . I step forward and make the out call since I saw it clearly. But having stepped forward, I am now in the fair territory between 3rd and Home. And here it comes. F3 is throwing home to try to get R2 who is trying to score from 2nd. Train wreck. R2 brushes by me going to the plate and the catcher hits me reaching out for the throw. I got caught up in making the call at 1st and forgot about R2. R2 scores and the defensive coach is on me for interfering. He wants me to put the runner back on 3rd. I know I cannot do that even though I am thinking about it. I admitted I blew it but that I am part of the field and so the play stands as it ended. I recognize how many things I did wrong in that short time span, but I am most concerned with my final decision to let the play stand as it unfolded.
Was that the right thing to do?

My partner felt bad afterwards, but no matter where he put me, I still blew my mechanics. I just want to be sure I followed proper procedure when I let the play stand as it ended up.

Thanks in advance. [/QUOTE

This is why the BU should get the best position possible and make (and stick with) a call. He threw you under the bus by not working hard enough to get that call himself.

[jicecone]

NO reason whatsoever your partner couldn't have gotten into position for that call. Did he stay in the "C" position?

His only responsibility on this play was the call at first, and he blew it and you covered his butt.

You were in the right position because your next responsibilty was third, then home. You CANT be in front of the plate. I once stepped up for some stupid reason and the runner tripped over me. SH%% Happens.

[officialtony]

Thanks for the replies.
BU didn't move much out of " C ". He was still F6 side of mound when he was straightlined.
My real question is, " did I do the right thing by letting the play stand as it ended up - R2 scores and we play on?".
I didn't want to punish either team for my " incompetence " ( although I feel like I cheated the defense out of an opportunity to get an out at home. )
In any event, I hope I do a better job of reacting to these kinds of things in the future. This one REALLY bothered me. I felt like I was having a helluva game up to this point.

sidenote: the defensive team in this case ended up losing 15-5.

Thanks again.

[cowbyfan1]

Originally posted by officialtony
Thanks for the replies.
BU didn't move much out of " C ". He was still F6 side of mound when he was straightlined.
My real question is, " did I do the right thing by letting the play stand as it ended up - R2 scores and we play on?".
I didn't want to punish either team for my " incompetence " ( although I feel like I cheated the defense out of an opportunity to get an out at home. )
In any event, I hope I do a better job of reacting to these kinds of things in the future. This one REALLY bothered me. I felt like I was having a helluva game up to this point.

sidenote: the defensive team in this case ended up losing 15-5.

Thanks again.

Yes you did the right thing. Sometimes crap happens and it dropped on top of you mostly due to a lazy (and fat probably) partner. The only way you could have "interfered" at this point is if the ball got lodged in your equipment, which is obviously not what happened.

[officialtony]

Thanks for the responses folks.
This was our third of three games and he really didn't want to be here anymore. He wasn't moving a whole lot, but the game was relatively well played ( by the winning team - the losing team was never in the game), so I didn't give him a hard time about his attitude. I did talk to him about the play afterwards and he just said he got caught off guard and never " had a chance to move ". I have worked with partners of all sizes and shapes - almost all who have moved to be in position. BU was " a bit " larger than most, but that was not an excuse for his lack of motivation. Nor does it forgive my incompetence for the poor mechanic on the play. Just an observation.
Again . . . . thanks.

[3appleshigh]

I thought that there is no way in this play for the umpire to "interfere" none what so ever. I only have 2 types of umpire interference, 1) on the catcher's throw trying to retire a base stealler, and 2) on a ball hit which hasn't passed an infielder.

If the ball got lodged, it would simply be OUT OF PLAY, not interference and the run would still score. Or is this different in FED ball?

[David B]

Originally posted by officialtony
Thanks for the responses folks.
This was our third of three games and he really didn't want to be here anymore. He wasn't moving a whole lot, but the game was relatively well played ( by the winning team - the losing team was never in the game), so I didn't give him a hard time about his attitude. I did talk to him about the play afterwards and he just said he got caught off guard and never " had a chance to move ". I have worked with partners of all sizes and shapes - almost all who have moved to be in position. BU was " a bit " larger than most, but that was not an excuse for his lack of motivation. Nor does it forgive my incompetence for the poor mechanic on the play. Just an observation.
Again . . . . thanks.

Stuff like this will happen, but you will learn and be a better umpire because of it.

Rich said it best, that's BU's call and he should make it.
If he's straightlined so what, make the call. Then if there's a problem he'll take the heat and learn to hustle or even better, move to B position instead of C. (g)

Thanks
David

[Mi-Umpire]

Would it be proper mechanics for the BU waiting until after the play to ask for help? If BU noticed the runner rounding 3B it would of saved alot of problems and caused others I'm sure. If BU would of made a no call and after the play meet with PU to get his view wouldn't of that been better?

[officialtony]

The BU had his back to 3rd base " watching " the play develop at 1st. I had the runner from 2nd out of the corner of my eye, but when BU came up pointing at me, I lost the runner from 3rd and proceeded to make the call at 1st. You may be right about the no call until all play had ceased. I didn't think of that because I was caught by surprise by the request from BU to make the call.
And I agree that if he had moved to B or even got a better line of sight to the play, he would have been OK. I think he might have just figured it would be an easy call to make and didn't hustle. I am not criticising him because I don't know what went on in his mind. His post game explanation was kind of weak, but after three games in the heat, we were both pretty tired.
Anyway, I am comfortable this will not occur again. My notes-after-game book continues to grow.

[DG]

As PU I feel like I have primary responsibility for the tag at 3rd, and the play, if any, at the plate. If I have time after the tag at 3rd I might glance back to 1B, but I'm still in position for the play at the plate. The call at 1B is BU's. If he asked me and I clearly saw a foot off the bag, I might answer, after there is no longer a call at the plate to be made. I'm not going to jeopardize missing one of my calls, calls that might result in a run scored or not, or an out at 3rd for a missed base. He needs to make his call, and any help I can give him will come after I'm done with my responsibilities.

[cowbyfan1]

Originally posted by 3appleshigh
I thought that there is no way in this play for the umpire to "interfere" none what so ever. I only have 2 types of umpire interference, 1) on the catcher's throw trying to retire a base stealler, and 2) on a ball hit which hasn't passed an infielder.

If the ball got lodged, it would simply be OUT OF PLAY, not interference and the run would still score. Or is this different in FED ball?

it is fed 5-1-1-g-4 Ball becomes dead when a pitch or thrown ball lodges in an umpire's or catcher equipment.

[3appleshigh]

I agree the ball is dead, but it is not interference. Is it interference in FED? or just a dead ball, it's kind of a symantic issue I know but I like to get my terminology correct and have been working on that this year.

[lawump]

Originally posted by jicecone
NO reason whatsoever your partner couldn't have gotten into position for that call. Did he stay in the "C" position?

Answer: He had to have either stayed in "C" (as stated in other posts) or moved directly toward first base instead of the 45-foot line.

As I have said on other boards, I often get frustrated at the number of times in amateur baseball the BU asks the PU for help on a force play at first.

As I have taught at various clincs, no matter from which position you begin in the infield ("B" or "C")when taking a play at first base, the base umpire HAS to move toward the 45-foot line, and not toward the bag.

Umpires moving from "B" or "C" directly toward the first base bag, in my opinion, is one of the top incorrect mechanics consistently used today. Its the old umpire school saying, "angle over distance in the two man".

Tony, don't beat yourself up. The (former) pro umpire in me would have (when pointed at by the base umpire) either (1) pointed back at the base umpire (2) waived "hello" at the base umpire OR (3) stared at him with bug eyes conveying the message, "its all you, buddy". However, I have respect for you accepting the request for help (if you call a "point" a request) and saving your partner's butt.

As to the play at the plate, don't be afraid if you get caught on the inside (in fair territory) to take the play at the plate from there. For example, I was taught by my PBUC evaluators (back in 1997...for those keeping score) that if you, as the plate umpire come up and into the third base cut-out on a first-to-third rotation, and the ball then subsequently gets away and the runner goes home, that you should stay in fair territory and take the play out in front of the plate. Especially at that level, there is no way you can get back into foul territory with how fast those players are.

So in your situation, if you are not going to do one of the three things I would have done when pointed at, I would just make the call (at first) out in front of the plate, remained there, and then followed the throw from the first baseman back to the plate and let the throw turn my eyes into the play at the plate.

I hope your base umpire bought you a few cold ones after the game.

One other little thought:
It seems to me from reading your intial posting that when the base umpire "pointed" it took you a minute or two to realize what he was doing. This suggests that maybe you guys didn't have a very comprehensive pre-game conference. You might want to look into whether you are having adequate pre-game conferences or not.