First off I would like to compliment whoever hands out those umpire uniforms. Those ajustable hats with the velcro in the back look awesome. All the umpires are wearing them, and they have some sort of logo on the front.

2 things:

1. The PU's get it right mentality is over the top. He went to get help because the defensive coach was begging for some reason to call R3 out as he scored. It was a bad throw up the line, and their may have been contact between F2 and R3, but it was not intentional by either player, and the contact was barely anything if any.

2. Next batter, fly ball. R3 tries to advance after the catch. R3 comes down and makes contact with F2 with his shoulder first, after the throw went past F2. R3 falls over catcher, and has to take another step to get to the plate. PU starts pointing at either the plate or R3. I don't know if he is calling obstruction, or interference, or what. Turns out, he is signaling to count the run. I don't know why he didn't just signal "safe". It didn't look like R3 was trying to hurt F2, but he didn't appear to slip or anything. To me it looked like he lowered his shoulder to get through the catcher.

Offensive manager talked to PU (he is wearing a microphone). Manager is saying that F2 is blocking R3's path. PU says that there was obstruction, but he didn't call it because R3 scored.

If this was NCAA/NF play, would you have called a malicious crash, obstruction, interference, or a combo of those?

I, like you, did not see the point of the PU meeting with the other umpires over the call (apparently correct) he had just made (instance 1 in your post). Just a waste of time IMO. Make the call and move on.

In the second one, he was awarding the plate on the obstruction.

Since LL rules require possession of the ball before a fielder can block a base, BOTH plays were obstruction.

Who gives a crap about the hats besides umpire fashion plates?

Hmmm,
 

Gee Rich, here comes another "over the top" comment from Tee:

I would not work a game that "required" me to wear an adjustable hat. If they can't invest in me, who would be required to be working for free anyway, I certainly wouldn't "invest" (my time) with them.

Sorry Rich, I care.

I would (and have) capitulated on the adjustable cap, but instead I would draw the line at dancing the freaking macarena in a chorus line with my partners.

My refusal to do that will, I'm sure, be the only thing keeping me off a regional or world series field in the future. (he said with tongue firmly planted in cheek.)

Re: Hmmm,
 

For the most part, we don't. It's just a difference of opinion. Perhaps there needs to be more effort put into understanding that "different" does not equal "wrong".

We're used to adjustable hats in LL. They're a LOT cheaper and we can buy them ahead of time and have them ready rather than waiting to measure the head size of the kids that make a team, or learning who's on the volunteer umpire crew this year.

Rich,
 

Yea right, adjustable hats are just the "cat's meow!"

Cripes, invest in people (that would be umpire's not the ankle biters) and raise up from it, boy!

I guess you're right -- the mustard from that free hot dog would probably just spoil the look of a real hat.

See, I have just given you another reason to take a breath -- just another reason I wouldn't cross your path on a small diamond.

Yes, "different" and "wrong" describe different actions -- adjustable hats are simply "wrong".

L & K,

T

Re: Rich,
 

I simply don't care. We wore adjustable hats in some games in Europe. Didn't really bother me. Nobody notices except people like you and me (I notice, but it just doesn't bother me a whole lot).

There is a better option, though. This season, I bought some Flex Fit caps from Richardson for football season. I think these hats will eventually replace the traditional fitted hats of today. They come in two sizes and from the outside look like fitted caps.

I got a couple too, this season. Functional, look good, and fit better than traditional fitted caps.

Inexpensive, too.

Re: Re: Hmmm,
 

All of the umpires' shirts had some LL central region words/logo above the breast pocket. Maybe I'm wrong, but I assume those shirts were provided by LL. Some of the umpires on TV yesterday looked like Marines, and some were pretty chubby. If LL is able to invest the money into different shirt sizes, why can't they spend the extra money for different hat sizes.* Come on Ives, these are ESPN games. Any game shown on ESPN is important enough for fitted hats. Weren't the teams wearing fitted hats anyways?

*Gerry Davis, +POS, and Honig's all sell fitted hats for the same price as the adjustable hats.

"Iows"

51st state?

Bob

Come on Ives, these are ESPN games. Any game shown on ESPN is important enough for fitted hats. Weren't the teams wearing fitted hats anyways?



You are assuming they give a S&^%.

Just because you do doesn't mean anyone else does.


The teams were wearing whatever hat their league provided at the start of all-stars. They don't get new stuff until they get to Williamsport.

Re: Re: Rich,
 

id rather go hatless then wear a flex-fit hat. worst type of hat ive ever worn.

Re: Re: Re: Rich,
 

Your opinion is noted and (since I've worn the flex-fit cap and liked it) disregarded.

--Rich

OK,
 

Our umpire group requires that umpires buy fitted hats from the association.

We get sized umpire hats with embroidered Four Letter emblem and we pay less than $10.00 per hat.

Less than $10.00 per hat guys.

We offer everything from 4 stitch comb hat through 7 stitch (8 stitch if you order the year before).

$10.

T

Re: OK,
 

I buy hats from whomever I want. I normally buy the pro-mesh hats from Honig's, but I do like the Flex-Fit in terms of fit. I don't know if I'd like them on the plate or not, but they're great on the bases.

Why do umpire associations or leagues feel the need to put their logos on hats anyway? What's wrong with a plain hat?

?
 

The umpires working the "AFLAC Future's All-Star High School Game" this afternoon from Maryland have "blank" hats.

It actually looks funny.

Let me reask you a version of your question:

"Why woujldn't an association want to look as "professional" as possible.

All Oregon High School umpires are required to wear logo's hats (the logo of their local association).

T

None of the associations I work for have a logo. So I use plain hats from Honigs, unless somebody running a tournament gives me a hat to wear at the tournament. The ones I have been given most recently with a logo are the flex fit, and they look like a fitted hat. My shirts have no logos either and none of the associations I work for require a number, so I don't use one. So my hats and shirts can be worn anywhere.

[Edited by DG on Aug 13th, 2005 at 06:03 PM]

DG
 

We don't have numbers because of number of umpires.

We have 180 guys so the only numbers that fit look like a cub scout troop.

To be able to work the American Legion State Tourney in Oregon you must buy your own (fitted) American Legion hat.

They do not allow either a plain hat or a local logo.

They do however require the crew of the championship game to wear Hawaiian Shirts.

Go figger!

Let me just say this about the hats, the dancing and the rest of the crap with the LLWS......





Little League Sucks!
The LLWS is a joke! It's just a commercial thing now.
LL umpires who waste their time and money going there are nuts!

LLWS
 

Gee Ozzy, why don't ya tell us how you really feel about it!

Ozzy, there's a typo in your sig.

Gotta be a small piece of his mind - it isn't a big mind to start with.



So Ozzy, care to let us know what happened along the way that resulted in your opinion of LL?


I "get" Tee's position - there are standards for how things are done and LL doesn't meet them.

But your position seems more deeply rooted.

At lesast his mind is big enough to acurately describe LL.

As I have already said, Gerry Davis, +POS and Honig's all sell fitted caps for the same price as adjustable caps.

This is not a price issue. Some people wonder why being called a LL umpire is a bad thing. This is a prime example of why the previous sentence is true.

Exactly why? Like I said before, exactly who, besides the umpire fashion plates, really cares? Nobody mentioned it on ESPN the last few nights.

Personally, I wear nothing but fitted hats. Always have. But if someone gave me an adjustable hat to wear at a tournament, I would put it on without a second thought.

BTW, all the umpires are provided Honig's shirts, too, specifically embroidered for the tournament.

I assume the tournament guys ask the umpires what size shirt they wear. Why can't they do the same thing for the hats?

Some LL guy in Calif. said that he can't get them because they cost too much. But they don't.

I know for sure, if I was calling a game that was on ESPN, I would not be wearing an adjstable hat. Maybe if LL didn't scam the umpires out of game fees, a few of them might have bought some fitted hats on their own.

I got a picture of Ben Franklin that says not as much as a single umpire at regions ot Williamsport think they are being scammed out of game fees.

Yeah I know. They have been brainwashed into thinking that they should work for free. With all the money that LL saves by not paying game fees, I would have thought they would have been able to afford fitted hats for the umpires.

Gee Rich, you want to match mind games? We've done this before, you know.

Short memory, buddy. Done it several times on another board, twice for you! I guess you are experiencing a memory problem.

Deeper than you or anyone would care to deal with. In 20 years, nothing has changed. Fact is I woke up and realized that the whole LL thing is a joke. It's a nice thing to start out with, but after a while, you realize that there is more to life than a 60' diamond. Bronco and Pony is just catching on here. What a refreshing change! Kids playing real baseball - not LL crap!

But then, when your whole life is trying to get to Williamsport to umpire on TV for nothing and line dance on the foul line, I guess I cannot convince you that the whole concept is lunacy. That is unless you got paid to do LL - then you can't go anywhere! SOrry, I'll stick with 90' diamonds and upper level. You guys can do it for the kids!

Luke,

I worked the Dixie Junior Boys (13 yr olds) WS in Aiken SC last year. We were given an adjustable hat by the tournament staff and asked to wear it on the bases. We could wear a blank hat behind the plate. I don't like adjustable hats when I am umpiring. However, given the choice between wearing the hat I was given or not working the tournament, I chose to wear the hat.

I don't have a problem with LL giving their guys adjustable hats. Would a fitted hat look better? Sure...But it didn't happen. I would much rather be concerned with other things like why you need 6 guys on a 60 ft field, the 2nd base ump meticously dusting off the bag and the area around it (note: he should have gotten a new pair of pants that didn't look faded out), or the lack of a signal by U3 on a ball that passed between the third baseman and the line. All of these occurred in the Great Lakes final game yesterday.

I give these guys a benefit of the doubt in this regard: few, if any of us, have ever had our work displayed live on national television. With that said, there are things that you should and should not do no matter what level. I don't work LL but I can only hope that merit is the strongest component of the selection process and not simply longevity or the willingness to volunteer to spend ones' own money to work at progressive levels.

Luke I will agree with you on some of your points. However, hacks like you and me giving our two cents aren't going to change LL. It will take, as with other things, an internal change if the points that you and others raise are to be corrected.

Lawrence

There you go with the "real baseball" excuse. Another crock excuse.

What is "real baseball"?

A 60' field isn't real but a 70' field is?

The LL pitching limits aren't real but the Pony pitching limits are?

Re-entry in LL isn't real but re-entry in any other program is?

No-leads in LL aren't real but it's OK in Ripken, Dixie, and some levels of Pony?

Is a DH real? LL doesn't use it until the 17-18 group. Either the AL or the NL isn't playing real baseball, based on the answer.

Is the Force Play Slide Rule real? If not HS, Legion, and NCAA don't play real baseball. If it is, then the pros don't play real baseball.



It's not about "real baseball."

It was Tee who said he would refuse to work the game.

I would go through with it, but I would put up a big fight, with demands that my game fee be increased and such.

You are missing the point. Chirs Hickman taked to the TD of the Western Region LL tournament. Chris asked if the TD could get fitted hats for the umpires. The TD said that they don't have the money to buy them. I have pointed out that at GD, +POS, and Honig's, fitted caps cost the same as adjustable caps. LL claims that it is a money issue when it is not. It is just another case of classic LL.

Why do they have 6 on the field? ULF is like 30 feet back from U3.

Did you guys see the ball which went to the backstop with R1 and R2 yesterday in the second game? The batter swung at the pitch and I thought he missed it. The catcher is running to get the ball and the PU starts giving the foul tip sign (He never signaled foul.) GRRR. I wish the runners would have advanced. It would have been nice to hear his talk with the offensive manager.

But that's not how it is. If it was, we would have seen guys like Rich F out there.

The umpires are brainwashed. They don't realize that they are missing a higher level of play and game fees at the same time. The current umpires brainwash the new umpires when they join up. I don't think the chain will ever end.

Maybe the correct term should be "non-crap baseball."

Real Baseball
 

Extremely well put, Rich, and I'm in your camp. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I do both 60' and 90' and while I enjoy the 90' better merely because it seems the players are a little more advanced, it's still fun to do the 60' because there is no "can of corn," or "routine ground-out." That, to me, makes it enjoyable cause you never know what's gonna happen.

Just my 2 cents.

Luke,

It's community service. If you don't want to work the games for free, don't. But don't act like the people who do are idiots.

I work a lot of paid games in a season -- college, HS, adult league, etc. I do LL for a different reason. Nobody locally gets rich doing LL -- all money that comes in goes back into the program.

So take your fitted hat and your superior attitude and, well, you know....

--Rich

Merit is one component. But just like anyone who's moved to a new area knows, you can be the best umpire in the world and not get assigned when you're new. I'm only in my 3rd season of umpiring LL, and I only do the tournament games. The guys that did the plate in 2001 and 2003 in Indianapolis work college baseball and HS baseball in the spring.

We aren't brainwashed. We do it cause we want to. We all have our own personal lines that we won't cross. Is it dancing with mascots or pivoting in on a clean hit with a 6-man crew? Each of us will have to answer that for ourselves.

Personally, I hope I get the chance to work at Indy some day. If that's not your cup of tea, that's OK. But it doesn't make me brainwashed.

Christ, Rich - get a grip on yourself! No, LL is not real baseball! It hasn't been and never will be! You can rant and rave all you want but staying on a base without leading off and umpires throwing flags is not baseball. It's Kiddie Ball and that is all it ever will be! Why is it so hard for you guys to admitt this?

The DH is real since the AL hasn't gotten rid of it. The FPSR is for safety as you well know. None of this is pertinant to the fact that Kiddie Ball is not real baseball. What is real is that even LL umpires are living a "dream" just like the mommies and daddies of LL'ers. Why don't you curl up with Andy K. and see if he might let you have your 15 minutes of fame sometime!

It's MUCH better to have leading off at the 12-year old level so that every walk becomes a triple. I understand.

Ozzy Ozzy Ozzy

I (and I quote via edit/copy) think the following statement of yours is ranting and raving (the bolding is yours and adds to the evidence):

<b>Little League Sucks!
The LLWS is a joke! It's just a commercial thing now.
LL umpires who waste their time and money going there are nuts!</b>


If the DH is real, then I guess the NL doesn't play real baseball. It can't be both.

If the FPSR is real, then pro ball isn't real. It can't be both.

Other organizations have WS too. Are they also only in it for commercial purposes?

With the "logic" you posted, I guess the only difference between LL and real baseball is the no lead off rule because you dismissed or ignored other examples of differences.

But if that's the case then the other organizations with no lead off rules aren't real either - but your rants don't include them. Why?


I really think you had some kind of bad experience with LL and haven't gotten over it.

Cripes,
 

Coach you're so full of crap your eyes are brown.

Go be a coach and leave this umpire site . . . PLEASE.

Tee

People keep talking about "real baseball" or "not real baseball" without defining what they mean.

There are MANY variations in the rules amongst the various rule sets and sanctioning bodies. The notion that some are real and some are not has to be based on something.

What are those somethings?

And look at the top of the page to see the posting rules. They don't say "only umpires".

Your signature is ignorant and over-emphasizes your importance.

Hey, rat, I played in a league when I was 11-12 years old where there were NO coaches. There was one adult to supervise the field all day and to organize the league, but all decisions were made by a playing team captain.

We don't NEED coaches. Over-organizing baseball is a result of parents wanting to be too involved in their children's play.

And, by the way, if it wasn't for you and your rat brethren, you wouldn't need umpires. We played pickup games all the time when I was a kid -- we kept score and made the calls ourselves.

Good for you Rich.


But who is the rat here, me or the people who are constantly pissing all over LL and other youth baseball organizations and treating it's participants like brain dead imbicles. Really classy.

I think you're both equally bad, actually. And, well, you are the rat.

I think those who constantly rip Little League and the fact that tournament umpires are volunteers are no better than builders and contractors that would go to a Habitat for Humanity house and whine that the builders aren't being paid and then make fun of their technique. Oh wait, that wouldn't happen.

But you're over the top with your signature. Your signature puts coaches at the top of the food chain and umpires at the bottom. It just isn't that way -- I mean, I've ejected people like you and the game goes on without you. The game wouldn't go on without us :)

The signature, which I took back off after one post, was not meant to set a pecking order. It was meant to say that of there are no games due to no organization and/or participants, then there is no need for officials. We are all necessary. In our league the officials are part on the league, not hired from the outside so I do have a real appreciation for them.

OTOH, the managers, coaches, and umpires are hired/appointed (depending on the organization and level) by the league officials so there is a pecking order.

Millions of volunteers, not only in LL but in other youth organizatios in baseball, soccer, basketball, hockey, football, and others spend countless hours trying theor best to provides sports opportuities for youth around the world. Others are doing things like Boy and Girl Scouts.

Then a select few piss all over us and our organizations and we have to sit there and take it and not respond? Not where I live.

[Edited by Rich Ives on Aug 15th, 2005 at 08:39 AM]

Well,
 

If players and coaches didn't lie and cheat there would be no need for umpires.

Tee,

As I said before, if you want an umpires-only board, it's really easy to start one.

Your "favorite" site, Eteamz, has message boards for each web site and access is controlled by that individual site's webmaster.

It would fit your need perfectly.

<i>If players and coaches didn't lie and cheat there would be no need for umpires.</i>



I think that's a chicken/egg problem.

A most of us know from our youth, pickup games don't have umpires and they work out OK. Adding an official transfers the responsibility.

As a Basketball player, I found that games with officials were rougher than games without officials because the foul call was then treated as "not my job" by the players.

Then it wasn't a real basketball game. The more competative the game, the more guys you would have "not" calling the foul etc.,

If they don't call the foul that's because of bad officials, not simply the fact of "having officials"

That's like every year coaches who complain about three man vs two man in basketball. They are so afraid "more" will be called, when in fact with three man its been proven less is called but the game generally is cleaner.

Go figure.

Since its that time of the year, I give my yearly complaint of LL. I don't have a problem with LL, or any other baseball group, its just that LL makes a ton of money off of the LLWS hype and what comes of it?

Not much, things don't change, the leagues continue to cheat to get to the next level etc., and then everyone gives the same ole statement -

"but its for the kids"

Right! Its for the grown-ups and we all know it. LL just won't acknowledge that.

Thanks
David

They get about 1.6M per year for the TV rights. It allowed them to build a second stadium, double the size of the international grove, and double the number of teams they bring to Williamsport for the LLWS. LL pays all the transportation, lodging, and food costs for the teams in Williamsport. The teams get dorms and meals at regionals too.

That stuff isn't cheap.

LL is a not-for profit. They have to file financial reports that are available to the public. There aren't any stockholders, let alone stockholders getting rich. The "boss" gets about $150K per year - chump change in the CEO world. LL has about 100 paid employees world-wide. The rest of the work is done by volunteers.

The international grove in Williamsport and the dorms at regionals are off limits to everyone except the players and coaches. No fans, no media. It's a sanctuary. Heck - parents can only see their kids for an hour or so a day. They do a lot to make sure it's a fun experience for the kids.

And if you think the kids don't like being on ESPN, think again.

[Edited by Rich Ives on Aug 15th, 2005 at 11:57 AM]

WOBW

LLWS & $$$$$
 

Rich, if LL is paying for all of the travel expenses, then why do I keep hearing on all of my local news casts that a local bank is taking donations to help send the team from my area to PA?

Re: LLWS & $$$$$
 

Because LL is a rip-off. They want volounteers, donations, sell-a-thons and what have you. But there isn't even enough money to get their volounteer umpires to Williamsport.

But I am not allowed to tell you that because people like Rich think that LL is the greatest thing since sliced bread!

Please
 

Never, never EVER forget:

Ives is a LL rat . . . he has drank then kool-aid . . . and he will do all he can to convince you that the problem lies ANYWHERE but with his brethern.

Do me a favor . . . Rich . . . go back under the LL ROCK.

Little League Sucks.

Tee

I have coached 12 year olds for free. Had sons playing, so there was incentive. I have umpired 12 year olds for free, although rare, call it my contribution to the community. But I have never travelled more than 10 miles from home to umpire 12 year olds for free, so Williamsport is out of the question.

I enjoy watching the 12 year olds play. Saw a game tonight. One of the pitchers was pitching with long white sleeves under his sleeveless uniform shirt. Must be ok for LL rules...

<i>Rich, if LL is paying for all of the travel expenses, then why do I keep hearing on all of my local news casts that a local bank is taking donations to help send the team from my area to PA?</i>

I said they pay for the <u>teams</u>. They do.


They don't pay for the parents, other family members, league officials, and other hangers-on, etc.


I don't expect some of the LL bashers to believe me, so go to


http://www.littleleague.org/tourname...tRulesOnly.pdf


And read the financial responsibility section on page T-17.


It's interesting to note that the biggest LL bashers (Tee and Ozzy) aren't involved in LL, and in fact refuse to get involved so you need to ask yourself how they happen to know so much about how it works.

[Edited by Rich Ives on Aug 16th, 2005 at 12:23 AM]

none of the above

I enjoy watching the 12 year olds play. Saw a game tonight. One of the pitchers was pitching with long white sleeves under his sleeveless uniform shirt. Must be ok for LL rules... [/B][/QUOTE

DG,

I didn't see the game you are talking about, but your comment about the white undershirt sleeves being long brings a question to my mind.

If the sleeve length's are approximately the same length on each individual, and are of the same color for all players, why is wearing white a problem?

LL requires only that their patch be on the sleeve of the undershirt when a vest type uniform is used.

There is nothing disallowing the use of the color white in OBR, or LL that I am aware of.


Tim.

Re: Re: LLWS & $$$$$
 

There are a lot of rip-offs in this world. $2.50 for a gallon of gas is a rip-off when oil companies show record profits. $30+ for an NFL Preseason game is a rip-off to see guys who won't be playing in 4 weeks. $500+ for a season of travel ball + anywhere from $100 to $500 per player for tourneys with no expenses picked up is a rip-off. It all depends on what you want or need out of the program or product.

For my kid with marginal baseball talent, LL is the way to go because it is very economical, it is organized baseball, it teaches certain values to the kids (including the dark side of politics that he will have to be able to deal with later in life), and most of all...he has FUN playing LL. Whatever the arguments against the program, Fun for the kids is the primary goal of the organization, and they succeed overwhelmingly in that aspect. Yes, they have issues, but ultimately fun and participation is what LL is designed for. The All-Star tourney is designed to attract the more talented kids, so my marginally talented kid has the opportunity to play to a higher level than he would in a crappy instructional league.

Of the bashers, I believe Tee has an informed opinion (because I know he researches various things), and the rest tend to just jump on the bandwagon and say "Yeah, what he said...LL Sucks".

I can't speak for Tee nor will I try to.

As far as I am concerned, I put my time into LL many eons ago. Coaching, umpiring, UIC and being a parent of 3 (count them) 3 children who went through the "LL experience" - and that was only because there was nothing else at the time. So don't even think of telling me that I don't know what goes on in LL, Rich. I'm telling you as a former "insider" that LL sucks - period. The difference between you and me is I looked around 15 years ago and decided that this was crap and walked away. I do not coach, I have no ties to any league and I just umpire (on the 90' diamond).

Or maybe, I just grew up!

Ozzy,

I'm having a very hard time understanding how your experience with LL in your area translates to a condemnation of LL itself and all the local leagues throughout the world.

What happened?

Was it a local issue or driven by overall LL rules and policies?

Just about every organized sport I have encountered is polluted with money and/or politics and is generally worse as is grows in size (local -> regional -> national). Even umpire organizations are not exempt from this, where politics plays a very heavy role. School sports seem to be better than the norm although they are filled with "beg-a-thons" and the occasional parent manipulating the system to get their child into a specific district/school.

Pick any organization and they have their flaws.

If we were to choose the games we umpire based on the "purity" of the organization, we would be sitting on our couches at home.

personally, I just want to know what the LL Regional umps had for dinner last night :D

A Regional Dog and soda...:)

Ozzy,
Thanks for clarifying your experiences. Your opinions are honest, as are mine. It all depends on personal experiences and what you want out of life.

Matthew,
Well put. ALL organizations have issues.

Re: Re: Re: LLWS & $$$$$
 

Better read my article tomorrow. Your $ figures are too low!

Peter

Re: Re: Re: Re: LLWS & $$$$$
 

My only basis is what I was charged for 1.5 months of fall ball last year plus $250 each for a 4 team end of season tourney, of which 3 of the teams were from the same (our) organization. It was to be a 12 team tourney at registration (collect the money) time. The tourney field was our home field as well. Oh yeah, I forgot the mandatory (practice and game)uniforms ($200.00). We did it so my marginal player could play up and be ready for 12 yo pitching in the spring. So in that sense, he did get something out of it...(3 innings every other game) plus practice everyday. He was confident and had fun this spring. It was still a rip off though.

From talking to an AAU coach, that is average for the area. Some teams charge $2k for each season (fall and spring) plus the incidentals mentioned above.

Edited for spelling.

[Edited by TBBlue on Aug 16th, 2005 at 06:15 PM]

Re: Re: Re: Re: LLWS & $$$$$
 

Look forward to the article. An umpire friend of mine and I were talking about "select ball" the other day and I was talking about how it is NOT "select" - unless you want to select by being able to afford.

He told me his grandson was playing the summer and they had spent already in excess of $3000 this year and still have fall season to go - ridiculous.

And I've called the league a few times (15-18's) - the local summer league has better ball and it costs $70 to play.

Thanks
David

(R3 comes down and makes contact with F2 with his shoulder first, after the throw went past F2)

(If this was NCAA/NF play, would you have called a malicious crash, obstruction, interference, or a combo of those?)

No! because the attempt to field the ball had passed before the contact,,, The catcher did not have time to get out of the way after the missed attempt...

Runner is not at fault unless the ball was being fielded or in the possesion of the catcher.

There is an argument for obstruction, therefore if the kid had not made the plate, he could be awarded that plate.

This is a stupid coaches oppinion, so dont sue me ump.

One of the NFHS casebook plays under 8.4.2 does not agree with you and specifically states that the act of obstruction does not negate the runner's responsibility to avoid a fielder legally - a runner is required to legally attempt to avoid a fielder or legally slide.

In this case, R3 drops his shoulder and runs into F2. That is malicious contact and the runner is ejected. If R3 hasn't touched home before the malicious contact, he is also out.

Re: Hmmm,
 

I'm right fond of Tee, you know. He provides Officiating.com with some quality material.

But, as I say in On Deck, Tee has <b>strong</b> opinions, and that sometimes rubs people the wrong way. Even me. I want to use Tee's message to get some chips off my shoulders.

1. Little League is the largest baseball organization in the world with hundreds of thousands of umpires, give or take a few thousand. There are many things wrong with them. I don't like tight bases. I don't like reentry in any spot in the line-up. I don't like a designated runner for the fat first baseman. I don't like it that the MUST PARTICIPATE rule goes by the wayside at tournament time.

So I don't call Little League. Umpires who go ballistic when anyone mentions "volunteerism" or "hotdog and a coke" should just stay away. They are NOT going to change Little League. Best bet: Stick with comments about Leagues you understand and work for.

2. This wannabe business of "us" and "rats" began as an amusing sidebar. Umpires are in control, rats are evil. We must never give in to rats. Etc., etc. Bruce Froemming railed against cutting rats any slack: "Once you've s***ed a d***, you'll be a c********* all your life!"

Let me say this: The most ridiculous idea I've ever seen posted on a baseball internet board (even worse than "The ball hit his hand and went foul. Dead ball, strike on the batter) is this: All coaches are rats.

The categorical syllogism these pro-emulators use is absolutely valid:
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">A. All amateur coaches are rats.
B. He is an amateur coach.
Therefore: C: He is a rat.</blockquote>The problem lies in the major premise: It just flat ain't true.

In my career, I have observed coaches: (1) refuse to run up a score on a vastly inferior team; (2) come out to correct a ruling that went in their favor; (3) correct a score after the game that allowed the other team to win; (4) render aid to a striken umpire; (5) without being asked, calm the crowd/parents; (6) absolutely never come out or argue or complain or chirp or snicker; (7) spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars to outfit poor players (happens all the time in my neck of the woods); (8) speak highly (in the paper, at the Lion's Club) of officials and their importance to the game. (9) Etc.

These guys who've adopted the professional attitude (at least as applies to their behavior toward coaches on the field) should quantify their premise: <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">A. Some coaches are rats.
B. He is a coach.
Therefore, C: He may be a rat.</blockquote>A student once drew his "particulat" conclusion of a similar syllogism: He is some coach.

Look, if the umpire rat-haters posting here treated coaches as they claim, they would simply not get called for games. As Peter Osborne astutely points out, assignors like peace and quiet. He should know: He was one.

Now, we grizzled veterans <i>know</i> the emulators aren't describing what they actually do. But their posts do a disservice to less-experienced amateur officials.

3. It's sort of dumb to bandy words with Rich Ives. He's a sophisticated, knowledgeable League administrator and with more years in baseball than most of the umpires on this Board. He is calm, doesn't troll, doesn't overstate his case, admits it when he's wrong, doesn't crow when he's right. All you need to do to verify that Rich is a treaure is go to eTeamz and read the messages on the Coach's Board. Ouch!

4. Another coach, John Muller, has proved repeatedly that he knows the rules as well as any umpire on this Board. (Well, almost any umpire. grin)

5. Warren Willson and I once collaborated on a definition of the umpire's duty/charge/obligation:<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">He is present to ensure that no team gains an advantage not intended by the rules. (me)<br>He is present to ensure the regulations of the League that hired him are enforced. (Warren)</blockquote>From my career: Wear an adjustable hat? Do the eye test with The Famous Chicken? Wear a shirt with a patch? Kick dirt off a base? Rub up a ball during the game? Wear a retro-uniform?

Sure. Why not?

That I'm human and act courteously doesn't mean I've sold out. As Patton said: "I'm here so you can see if I'm as big a son-of-***** as you think I am."

And our "hit parade" (who reads what and when) still proves Roland is also not nearly so bad as some claim. (grin)

Re: Re: Hmmm,
 

I don't think that all of those things are equal, some of them aren't bad at all. Even Tee has said that he wore a retro-uniform with black slacks, white shirt and tie, and a outside protector.

Interesting
 

Carl I think life is about personal choices.

If I believe that, in my heart, then I should allow others to make the decisions that THEY can live with . . . that is fine.

AS "keepers of the game" people have various responsibilities to make sure that the game is protected and certain activities are at least "viewed."

As my friend Tony Peters says: "as an umpire I only report what I see . . . other than that I have little responsibility."

I will comment on only a few of your points:

"(4) render aid to a striken umpire;"

As I mentioned on the paid part of the site in my column I was amazed this past school season when I was nailed by a deflected pitch and coaches from both teams came to my aid.

I also commented in the column that may, just maybe, some coaches were fine. In fact I mentioned that I have friends that coach . . . and (psst) I even respect a few guys in my area.

"3. It's sort of dumb to bandy words with Rich Ives. He's a sophisticated, knowledgeable League administrator and with more years in baseball than most of the umpires on this Board."

Sorry CC I just can't agree. Rich is a Rat with a capital "R". While not as "Crooked" as some of the coaches on the ABUA website he is still Rat-centered and makes more silly comments than even me.

It is my opinion that this Forum would be better off without Rich -- in fact I have offered to leave the Forum if Rich would -- he declined.

"4. Another coach, John Muller, has proved repeatedly that he knows the rules as well as any umpire on this Board. (Well, almost any umpire. grin)"

I am not surprised in this comment. John, much like you, does deep study of the rules. Unlike you he has not worked as an umpire and has no idea of how the entire ebb and flow of a game sometimes dictates how that game is called.

Anyone can read JEA, J/R, BRD, NAPBL Manual and the MLB Red Book and make text book conversation. We have "real umpires" (tm) that do the same thing with game experience.

Again we would be better off without a coach trying to teach umpires the rules. But I understand, you like the acadameia of John's work. That is fine.

"From my career: Wear an adjustable hat? Do the eye test with The Famous Chicken? Wear a shirt with a patch? Kick dirt off a base? Rub up a ball during the game? Wear a retro-uniform?"

I would only take issue with my "opinion" that as a "professor of umpiring" that you should hold yourself to a higher standard.

I would never dance with a mascot, wear an adjustable hat, or take an eye test as part of an onfield prank. There are other umpires let them make a travesty of the profession.

Carl, life is a series of personal choices.

Do what ever you think is right, but remember many umpires of the future will follow your direction. Please remember to save at least a little of the tradition of umpiring.

In closing I would find it best if I did not comment on the guy from "downunder".

Re: Interesting
 

Tee: Well said!

Tee,

As far as I can tell

1) You have never seen me coach.
2) You have never talked with players I've coached.
3) You've never talked with the parents of those kids.
4) You have not had any discussions with other coaches or parents in the league.
5) You have not had any conversations with our umpiring staff regarding me.
6) No league officer has discussed me with you.

Therefore you havs no first hand basis for knowing how I fit in the coaching world on the field.

Your perceptions are thus those you have formed by reading my writings on line, as are my perceptions of you.

You seem to take offense at my defense of Little League and youth baseball. Whatever your opinion, I believe I have a right and an obligation to present the other side of the picture. No matter your opinion, you need to recognize that millions or people each year aprticipate in youth baseball (and other sports) and welcome and enjoy the opportunity. They differ from you, but that does not make them wrong. This is not your fiefdom, and opposing opinions are allowed.

You definitely take offense that I point out that many of the posters here brush off questions and comments from those deemed inferior. You, and others, are offended that I point out that they do not yet have your knowledge. My position is that it seems irrational to both complain that they don't know and also turn your back on them when they seek the knowledge. I cannot understand why you feel both positions are acceptable.

You have a personal set of rules of conduct. While your are certainly entitled to your beliefs, the positions you take are not universally held. Instead of recognizing that others are entitled to their opinions, you belittle them. A person who doesn't give a damn if a hat is fitted or adjustable is merely someone with a different opinion.

I have no doubt about your ability as an umpire. I have no doubt that your rules knowledge is superior.

But your intolerance for others is something you need to address.

I live in a rural area where people have widely different opinions on many things. The size of the area means that we cannot go on our merry way, never to cross paths again. We have to live and work together on many occasions.

We thus have developed the ability to separate activities. Two people who, on Monday night, have a loud disagreement over a subject in one venue, can team together on Tuesday in another venue. It is a way of life. It exhibits that we recognize that "different" and "wrong" are two separate things. It illustrates that a disagreement on one subject doea not mean there cannot be agreement on another.

This ability is necessary for a small community to function, and it is a skill/trait that would serve you well to develop.

Hmmm,
 

"But your intolerance for others is something you need to address."

Don't you dare to tell me how to live my life, rat.

-------------------
" . . . and it is a skill/trait that would serve you well to develop."

You have no idea what skills I have squeaky. No idea at all.

------------------

"You don't know me, you just think you know me."

DeRay Lindro -- "Get Shorty"





[Edited by Tim C on Aug 20th, 2005 at 04:36 PM]

Re: Re: Hmmm,
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Carl Childress

Quote:

1. Little League is the largest baseball organization in the world with hundreds of thousands of umpires, give or take a few thousand. There are many things wrong with them. I don't like tight bases. I don't like reentry in any spot in the line-up. I don't like a designated runner for the fat first baseman. I don't like it that the MUST PARTICIPATE rule goes by the wayside at tournament time.

Just as a point of edification:

re-entry in any spot in the lineup goes away during tournament play, and it goes away in regular season if the league adopts the optional continuous batting order rule;

the special pinch runner can now only run for the fat first baseman one time and one time only in the game - Fatty will have to get his exercise next time he gets on base;

the mandatory play rule is in effect during tournament play; however, it is more relaxed (3 outs and 1 at bat in tournament vs. 6 outs and 1 at bat in regular season) than in regular season.

By the way, Carl, the 17/18 yearold Big League team from Falfurrias, who represented their section in the Texas Big League tournament I worked last month, knew you and remembered your working some of their games (no doubt in a different league than their Little League team.)

Re: Re: Re: Hmmm,
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave Hensley

Quote:

Originally posted by Carl Childress Quote: 1. Little League is the largest baseball organization in the world with hundreds of thousands of umpires, give or take a few thousand. There are many things wrong with them. I don't like tight bases. I don't like reentry in any spot in the line-up. I don't like a designated runner for the fat first baseman. I don't like it that the MUST PARTICIPATE rule goes by the wayside at tournament time. Just as a point of edification: re-entry in any spot in the lineup goes away during tournament play, and it goes away in regular season if the league adopts the optional continuous batting order rule; the special pinch runner can now only run for the fat first baseman one time and one time only in the game - Fatty will have to get his exercise next time he gets on base; the mandatory play rule is in effect during tournament play; however, it is more relaxed (3 outs and 1 at bat in tournament vs. 6 outs and 1 at bat in regular season) than in regular season. By the way, Carl, the 17/18 yearold Big League team from Falfurrias, who represented their section in the Texas Big League tournament I worked last month, knew you and remembered your working some of their games (no doubt in a different league than their Little League team.)

Thanks for the info. I still don't like it: It isn't <i>real</i> baseball (just kidding, Rich).

Those guys played in a fall league and visited Edinburg Soto's field. (Named after one of my students who died of leukemia.)

But I would call Big League (if they had it here). It <i>is</i> real baseball. (Don't get excited, Rich)

I was the UIC for the Weslaco Senior League for four years. They play loose bases. But as I remember, they also had help for the fat first baseman.

Oh, well....

One thing I've found about Tee is that the postitions he takes on most issues are, in fact, "universally" held among top umpires. The "belittling" that Tee does is exactly the belittling the umpire will face from his peers at the best levels if the umpire does not have most of Tee's attitudes. A person who doesn't give a damn about a fitted vs adjustable hat is not a person with a different opinion, he is an inferior being in top umpire circles.

My beef with Tee is that he is unable to see beyond the ridiculous close mindedness of the top umpire corps and step out and call their foolishness exactly what it is, foolishness. For Tee isn't expressing an "opinion," he is a reflection of thousands of opinions of top umpires. In other words, he isn't "intolerant" as you say, he is reporting the reality of the top umpire corps. I guess that's his job as a journalist. Wannabe NCAA or top FED umpires ignore his "belittling" at their peril.

It's a shame that Tee with 30 years of experience cannot step up and challenge the imbeciles that compose top umpiring circles. What does he have to lose? OTOH, perhaps he recognizes the hopelessness of rattling the cages of the imbeciles. In that respect, he is doing the readers here a favor, and you, Rich, are doing them a great disservice. Your opinions, unlike Tee's, will lead them to oblivion.

<i>"Wannabe NCAA or top FED umpires ignore his "belittling" at their peril."</i>

Two points.


1) Most youth league umpires are not Wannabee NCAA or top FED umpires and have neither the time not inclination to be one. They just want to improve what they do for their youth leagues. And so what if there are thousands of the top dogs. Based on player participation numbers, there are probably 10 times as many youth league umpires as top echelon umpires This means there are a significant number of folks who are not at all affected by upper echelon hooey, and most don't care. His opinion, alone or shared, still represents a minority. (The notion that it has to apply to everyone is where the intolerant thought originates.) Which leads to

2) How sad it is that the top dogs don't, or refuse to, recognize this.




[Edited by Rich Ives on Aug 20th, 2005 at 07:16 PM]

<i>"You don't know me, you just think you know me."

DeRay Lindro -- "Get Shorty"</i>




It works both ways, Tee.

Hmmm,
 

However Biggie, I never told you how to live your life.

Re: Hmmm,
 

Tee, you probably don't mean to emulate this quote. The character, Bo, is wrong; Chili Palmer knows everything he needs to know about Bo. And, of course, Bo is a poser who ends up dead in the last reel of the movie.

But seriously, this little dog forum reader appreciates the contributions by the big dogs, the rats, and the other little dogs. I also appreciate the opinion of those who aren't fans of Little League(tm), because I am critical of some parts of it myself. (Though, as a member of the league, to be critical is to be self-critical.)

Ozzy6900, you have a last chance for next year with me. I am considering now whether to re-volunteer for the 2006 season. What should I know, that I don't know from experience, about Little League to make the best informed decision?

Tee, Rich: you have both informed me, answered my direct questions, and entertained me on these internet forums. It's silly (in my mind) to think that they would be in any way better if either of you quit participating. Even this latest dogfight has been entertaining, though unfortunately low on useful content.

Thanks,
-LL

Re: Re: Hmmm,
 

Hey LL,
If you know Ozzy personally, forgive my comments.

Whether you revolunteer is between you and your league/district. If they don't do what you think they should, don't go back. However, if your local group is decent, don't listen to any internet umpire tell you what you should do with your time and avocation. Make your own decision.

Re: Hmmm,
 

You've told me many times to get lost.

How sad that LL umpires have no inclination to move up the ladder. Even sadder is the fact that most LL umpires are incapable of moving of the ladder after years of learning bad habits in LL. As has been noted on this forum many times, after a while most LL umpires become untrainable for big boy ball because of years of developing bad habits.

Tee's opinion may be in a minority when it comes to all umpires if you count LL umpires as umpires. That's like saying that doctors are in a minority when it comes to health care professionals. That's true, they are a minority of health care professionals but their opinions are the ones that count when it comes to setting the standard of care for the health care profession. Judges are the minority of the law enforcement profession but their opinions are what count in setting the standard for the law enforcement profession. MLB and NCAA umpires are the minority of the baseball officiating profession but their opinions are what counts in setting the standard. Would it hurt LL umpires to follow their lead? It would certainly benefit those that ultimately decide they want to move up the food chain. Right now, they are locked into a ghetto forever.

<i>How sad that LL umpires have no inclination to move up the ladder.</i>

How sad it is that you think that it matters.

Most LL coaches have no inclination of moving up to be a HS coach, or higher. They just want to be part of their kids lives for a while. That doesn't mean they are a bad coach.

Most LL presidents have no inclinaton to move up to be the HS AD, or higher. They just want to make the league the best they can. That doesn't make them a bad president.

There are a lot of people who are happy being a techie and want no part of management. That doesn't make them a bad employee.

All-star Joey wants to be a firefighter and all-star Billy wants to be a computer game designer. Is one or both of them wrong, and lesser people, for having a goal other than what you think it should be?

People have different goals. But they are their goals, not yours or mine. Why mark them as inferior because they don't share yours?

Does Billy say that he wants to be bad at what he does and have other people laugh at him when they see his work?

LL umpires are bad, and many laugh at them when they are on TV.

I would assume Billy would try to be the best computer game designer he can be. LL umpires choose to remain bad, even though they have the opportunity to move up and improve their skills.

I'd rephrase this as: Some (too many) youth league umpires choose to remain bad even though they have the opportunity to improve their skills.

It's not just a LL situation.

Moving up is only one way to improve one's skills.

Too many are stuck in the "unconcious incompetence" state of umpiring -- they don't know that they're "bad", and, might think that they are "better" than those that work higher levels.

Let me change the subject slightly. I just saw Hawaii beat Davenport, IA. The plate umpire called every foul ball as if was a life/death matter.

I teach my students to yell "Foul!" (after "Time") only when their opinion matters: close play or runners advancing.

Have I been doing that wrong?

I've been told by some pros that "foul" is not for calls but for discussion: "Yes, Joe, it was foul," says Froemming after yelling "Time!" on ARod's smash down the line.

While the last guy in the med-school class is still called, "Doctor,".....I understand that local LLs have to use the umpires they can get and can't be too choosy.


..what I can't understand is why LL umpires with such obvious deficiencies are permitted/encouraged to work the LLWS on national television.....when even Harold Reynolds chews on you for 3 innings over an open mike, you have a serious credibility problem. Last night (I think, its been a rough weekend ;) ) I watched part of a game where the PU set up at a perfect 45* angle (in the slot) to the batter and catcher- he was facing F4 square away for every pitch. How do you call a zone when you have to look over your left shoulder to see the pitcher? Does Lance know about this? :D

Does anyone from Williamsport watch these guys work before offering a position in Regionals or higher?


....in all the 'thousands' of 'health care professionals' out there, aren't there LL umpires who at least *approximate* a higher standard of umpire? Can't this cream-of-the-crop make it to the Regionals or Williamsport?




Isn't it important to the LL management?

jes sayin'

I have not watched any of the LL World Series and will not be watching any so I did not see this umpire. However, that is the way the I learned to set up in the slot. Not at 45 degrees like you mentioned, but I am angled directly at F4 for a right hand batter. Likewise, my head is lined up with F4. My eyes are cocked to look at the pitcher but they are looking straight ahead as the ball passes over the plate.

I learned this method in 1991 from John Porter (who claims to have invented it), when all of the pro schools were teaching that the head should be aimed directly at the pitcher. I outlined this method in my first Internet article in 1999 which is still available on ABUA. I have noticed that there are several MLB umpires who now use this method. Over the years, I have mentioned several reasons why this method is superior, especially for umpires over age 25. You can be most accurate in pitch calling when your head is aimed straight at the strike zone. Being aimed straight at the pitcher provides no extra value. Where it leaves his hand is not important; where it passes over the plate is.

This method is harder to learn and one must be continually checked out in the cage by a teacher or he will tend to over compensate and get into other bad habits. From your description, this may have been what happened to the Little League umpire.

Peter

No, Billy doesn't want to be bad. And he will strive to be the best computer game designer he can be. But he doesn't have to work for EA Games to achieve that.

You conveniently skipped over the point, which I also illustrated with managers and league presidents.

You cannot rationally equate a choice to not move up the ladder with "badness". You cannot say logically that a manager is bad because he doesn't want to be the HS coach. You cannot logically say the league pres is bad because he doesn't want to be the HS AD or the LL DA. And you cannot logically say an umpire is bad because he doesn't want to be HS umpire.

What is your point? You can be a good umpire and not work MLB. There is a difference between trying to be the very best and being competent.

What type of college degree do you need to be a LL president? What type of college degree do you need to be a HS AD? None of your presidents have the schooling to be an AD.

LL coaches are just the first dad who says he is off work by 5:00. In many places, HS coaches are school faculty. So unless this LL coach is a teacher, he has no chance of coaching.

In a place where school districts hire anyone to coach, they don't just hire the first shmuch who steps up. You have to have some level of skill.

Yes you can. Read Jenkins' post above. Moving up is the only way to improve one's skills. If working LL all your life got you good at umpiring, then why do we see these losers on TV?

Knowing several regular LL umpires who have "worked their way up," I can assure you that the vast majority of these guys get Regionals and World Series assignments not based on their quality or ability but on politics and kissing arse.

The Association of which I am president assigns upper level ball (NCAA and summer college primarily), but a few years ago, we were given the task of assigning the Illinois State LL Tournament--4 umpires per game. Even I worked the games. We had a blast, the games were great, and the compliments we received from each member team were endless.

Before the tournament started, I get contacted via Email from an umpire not a member of our association. He told me he was trying to get to Indianapolis to work the Regionals and that he needed to work the state tournament to "be seen." I knew who this umpire was; I had nothing against him personally or professionally. Truthfully, he wasn't that good of an umpire. I respectfully told him I couldn't use him because our association was contracted to work it and our guys would receive that honor. He wasn't happy, telling me that he "needed to work." Further inquiries to him revealed that to get to Williamsport, one must do a lot of LL games, particularly at the upper tourney levels, and make sure that LL upper crusties see you.

It's obvious these upper crusties wouldn't recognize quality umpiring if it hit them in the face.

You are right. You cannot logically call someone bad because they do not want to move up. But you can call them unmotivated. Unmotivated people, over time, tend to become bad.

Somewhere in this discussion, a poster brought up the subject of the health care profession. The health care profession has two tracks at the top, doctors and nurses. What would you say about an orderly in a hospital who never took advantage of inexpensive community college courses to become an x-ray technician? Or the housekeeping person who never went on to become a LPN. Or the LPN who never went on to become an RN. Or even the dishwasher who never went on to become hospital chef.

The hospitals pay their people to go through these courses. They are desparate for trained workers. If you saw someone who had been an orderly for ten years and never taken advantage of these opportunities, you would be right to conclude theat he was:

1. too stupid to take the courses, i.e. learning disabilities or IQ disabilities.
2. unable to read and write English.
3. unmotivated

In any case, these people are held in distain by the public at large. Likewise, LL umpires are held in distain. From the descriptions of what I read here about their performance at Williamsport, it is not hard to see why.

It may be wrong for us to view those at the bottom of the ladder as unmotivated but that is the way that this country operates. There are lots of reasons for staying at the bottom, but this country operates under the assumtion that everyone tries to better himself. When we see people who make a profession of being at the bottom, we cast stones. Little League umpires are not being treated any differently from anyone else.

Peter

Fair enough..if this is an accepted mechanic, I apologize for my error. I'll keep my keyboard to myself next time :D

And LBJ approved the JFK Assassination
 

For all you Conspiracy Theorists:

It has always been my position that LL picks EXACTLY the umpires they want for the World Series.

IF the LL board selected four college umpires (that also work LL, such as Rich Fronhesier that posts to this Forum) and they did a GREAT job it would impact LL by many of the 100,000 volunteer umpires recognizing how bad they are.

This, in turn, would say to those umpires: "Well no matter how hard I work for a hotdog and a coke I'll never be able to work the highest quality games -- those at the LLWS."

With the way things are done now the same umpire can think: "Gees, these guys are horrible -- if I just offer to do this for 22 more years I am bound to get my chance at the big time!"

In all seriousness:

The administration of the LLWS either:

1) Does not know good (or bad) umpiring when they see it,

2) Place senority over all else when making selections,

3) Reward certain areas of the US for being loyal scouts or,

4) Allows the political side of LL to overwhelmingly influence the selection process.

So all you LL Kool-aide drinkers do you really think:

a) All obvious foul balls should be called out loud,

b) That plate umpires should to EACH hitter say, "Batter -up",

c) That you really need a game where ALL SIX umpires have indiclickercounters,

d) That after each have inning (or after every play when involved) a base needs brushing.

e) Let's digress to c): could there be any small diamond game that "needs" six umpires?

This all leaves LL up to great lanes of criticism.

Rightfully so I might add.

T