Inside the fence

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by Tim C


I am just amazed as I have NEVER considered doing anything with a single fan and here you are controlling "groups" of fans --

Tee I guess it depends upon what part of the country you are from.

We had one incident where a coach said so and so IN THE STANDS was talking trash to his players. The coach challenged the FAN to meet him in the parking lot.

Therefore, I guess we all have different experiences but when a FAN is OUT OF CONTROL inevitably it will trickle down to Inside the diamond.

In addition our association has policies in place with regards to both players and Fans. We have had 3 ball players BANNED from the mens league because they threatened an official.

TEE this is NY a different part of the World.

Pete Booth

[scottyman51]

Are you serious?They actually had a fight. I've had guys get in each others face over a disgreement but it's never got that bad. Sure their are coaches who are dicks but good god thats rought. Where in NY are you located?

[DG]

My last game was behind the plate of a state tournament final for 16-18 year olds. One team's fans gave me hell for just about every other pitch, regardless of who was at bat, and the other team's fans hardly said a word. On one occassion, after a batter had been hit by a pitch one of the complaining side's fans yelled loudly "damn, when does the pitcher get a warning?". While the player was being attended to I asked game management to either get rid of him or make him calm down. This was not high school or college tournament, but one where fan decorum is expected. That's about the extent of my involvement with fans. I generally ignore.

And while the cases of umpire abuse after a game are notorious, statistically, I expect it is higher risk to drive home from work. I know far more people who have been mugged going to their car after work (mostly female) than umpires who have been mugged after a game. Always leave the field with your partner, and never leave your partner until you are both undressed and ready, especially if the game has been fan-rough. And in the rarest of cases, you and your partner should leave, fully dressed and meet somewhere nearby. I have never felt that threatened, but if I did, I would be gone...

[mcrowder]

Good god, Peter. What do you work, a prison league?

Except in the MOST EXTREME of circumstances, any effort by the umpire to "control" a group of out of control fans is only going to exacerbate the situation. You are paid to UMPIRE THE GAME ... not play etiquette police to the fans.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Good god, Peter. What do you work, a prison league?

Except in the MOST EXTREME of circumstances, any effort by the umpire to "control" a group of out of control fans is only going to exacerbate the situation. You are paid to UMPIRE THE GAME ... not play etiquette police to the fans.

Fairly close to prison, Washington DC. We are full of criminals here, the difference is that most of them walk the street. The high powered lawyers keep them out of jail.

Your failure to recognize that you can and should control what goes on in the stands in youth baseball, is a failure of your imagination as a human being and umpire. The fact that the actions that you have seen "exacerbate the situation" means that they were not done correctly and were attempted by immature or incompentent umpires.

Joseph Satlin never worried about exacerbating the situation. He concerned himself with control. He kept killing people until he got control. Likewise, I can keep "executing" the morons until no one is left. Then I have control.

Yes, it is difficult to get control of a baseball game in the seventh inning after a game of marginal behavior. The morons have six innings of history with the umpire crew that leads them to believe that they are dealing with wimps. I execute them in the first inning by using the game administration personnel to do the dirty work. If I do my job right, they never know that the umpire initiated the execution.

Joseph Stalin caused 20 million or more of his countrymen to die. (This was over and above the 25 million or so that the Nazis killed.) Yet there is no record of Joseph Stalin ever pulling a single trigger. For the most part, he never knew who his victims were. His underlings knew what he expected and carried out most executions without him having to say a single word. Achieve that status on the baseball field and you will never be confronted in the parking lot after the game. The cretins will be mad at game administration personnel, not you.

Peter

[mcrowder]

Ah... I run my games the way every clinician I've ever talked with has agreed with, you feel compelled to overstep your bounds and deal hostilely with fans... and I'M Stalin.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Ah... I run my games the way every clinician I've ever talked with has agreed with, you feel compelled to overstep your bounds and deal hostilely with fans... and I'M Stalin.

No, I am Stalin. You are a wimp. You obviously did not read or understand my posts. You cannot understand that the clinicians teach MLB and NCAA protocols that may have nothing to do with with umpiring youth baseball.

Your uncreative mind prevents you from stepping outside the box and recognizing that the dangers of umpiring in uncontrolled settings require different methods. You are the classic wannabe big dog. You mouth pabulum taught by the big dogs without applying critical thinking to what they teach. This big dog is not impressed. MLB umpires can ignore the fans because there are 100+ police and security personnel at every one of their games. They have their own private protected walkway to their locker room. Their parking lot is separated from the fans.

I do not deal "hostilely" with fans. I follow the Joseph Stalin model. From all accounts, Stalin was a charming man in person and took time out to play with his own and other children. He let others do the dirty work for him.

Peter

[mcrowder]

Just like you're being all charming now...

I don't think anyone I've ever worked with would call me "a wimp". Interesting perspective for someone who's never met or worked with me.

I DO understand that working in extremely uncontrolled environments might require different protocol than those I've been accustomed to (and I work older "youths" approximately as often as I work older groups, and occasionally the younger tikes - I've found nearly zero difference between their fans, at least in my area).

What I took issue with was the fact that someone posted here that she learned from this group how to ignore first when dealing with issues outside the fence... only to have 4 or 5 posters summarily baste her. It was uncalled for. It was THOSE posters that failed to realize that in most cases, ignoring the garbage outside the fence is the best way to deal with it, and bashed her for not being Stalin, as you say.

PS - I know who the big dogs are on here... and who the big-dog wannabes are as well. I am currently neither. I'd say I'm a medium dog at best, who is here both to learn and to help others learn. I may eventually be a "big-dog", but hopefully will not become as arrogant as the wannabes of which (and from whence) you speak when I become one.