Helmet v Mask

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by Kaliix
1. You can see better out of the HSM (Hockey Style Mask) because the bars are slightly wider apart in the middle than a mask (yes, I measured it, with calipers) and edges of the mask at the left and right are wider. This gives you the "feeling" that you can see everything. When you view the field out of the HSM, your peripheral vision is not restricted.

this is always a point people bring up, but the current mask i use (aul3000 or whatever) is perfectly fine. i dont need to see 160 degrees to my left or right.

i understand you get a better peripheral vision with a hockey mask, but can anyone provide a good example of why you need the extra peripheral vision? i cant think of anything

[Edited by briancurtin on Sep 20th, 2005 at 02:10 PM]

[LMan]

but can anyone provide a good example of why you need the extra peripheral vision? i cant think of anything

..I think that esteemed umpire Seymour Milfbutz had a good suggestion about that

[nickrego]

Let me get this straight ?

Umpires are asking why we would need better visability to perform a duty where we make decisions based on WHAT WE SEE ?

I guess I better take my helmet off...I'm having trouble seeing this one.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by nickrego
Let me get this straight ?

Umpires are asking why we would need better visability to perform a duty where we make decisions based on WHAT WE SEE ?

I guess I better take my helmet off...I'm having trouble seeing this one.

What do you need to see that is to your side?

[Kaliix]

Basically your view is better because the bars farther apart from top to bottom and there is nothing in your peripheral vision.

Trying to explain it to you without you having tried on a HSM is next to impossible. It's like trying to explain why one mattress feels better than another. Or like trying to explain oversteer/understeer in a car to someone who hasn't driven. It is a feel thing. The view just feels more open and unrestricted. And I never felt my view was restricted in a mask...Until I put on a HSM. Now I had something to compare it to and the difference becameapparent.

I guess the point is that you are either willing to give the HSM a shot or you are not. I wasn't sure I wanted to one. I liked the traditional look of a mask and I wasn't crazy about not having a hat on at times. But there really is nothing to lose (except possibly eval points if you have a association that would do that sort of thing) by trying it. It is the only way you'll know if it is for you.

Some guys won't try it. They are apprehensive about change and are content with what they are using. And that's fine. Some will take the chance and realize that the HSM is superior to a mask (in their opinion) and will never go back. I am admittedly one of those. A few might decide that the HSM is not for them, in which case put it up on ebay and you'll likely make most or all of you money back.

All I can tell anyone is that the view feels and is better. Objects will come into your peripheral view slightly faster. I've given guys my HSM to try and they are amazed at the difference. But the HSM is a new technology and look and it isn't right for everyone. Only you can decide but you have to try one if you really want to know...

Originally posted by briancurtin

this is always a point people bring up, but the current mask i use (aul3000 or whatever) is perfectly fine. i dont need to see 160 degrees to my left or right.

i understand you get a better peripheral vision with a hockey mask, but can anyone provide a good example of why you need the extra peripheral vision? i cant think of anything

[Edited by briancurtin on Sep 20th, 2005 at 02:10 PM]

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Kaliix
Basically your view is better because the bars farther apart from top to bottom and there is nothing in your peripheral vision.

That dosen't explain why I have to see to the side. The pitch comes straight at me. Why do I need to see the on deck circles?

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by nickrego
Let me get this straight ?

Umpires are asking why we would need better visability to perform a duty where we make decisions based on WHAT WE SEE ?

I guess I better take my helmet off...I'm having trouble seeing this one.

luke already covered it, but i honestly do not see the need for a wider field of vision. what do you need to see with your peripheral vision while you are tracking a pitch? nothing. uh oh, i didnt see the kid in the on deck circle make a face at me. im not really worried about that.

the vertical height between bars being larger is a good point, ill take that one, but the wider field of vision i do not see the need for at all.

[kylejt]

I busted out my All Star helmet last Saturday night, just to give it a go. I've used it in the past with backstops that go over my head. If you've ever taken a ball off the little button in the top of your hat, you'll understand why.

Yes, it does give you a different view. And yes, you do see more of the field. Some may like it, and some may find it distracting. And it is cooler, because you're not wearing a freaking wool cap. (what dolt thought of using wool hats for a summer sport?) A good leather chin pad is a must. Plastic helmets tend to transmit a lot more shock than the fiberglass and kevlar models, so if you get one, get a good one.

What I don't like about them is the sound. When I call a strike, foul, etc. you're going to hear it in the next zip code. I'm loud. Yell in a hockey mask, and a lot of that sound comes right back into your own head. That sucks.

Yes, they still look goofy, and you do have to deal with helmet hair. And no, I will not wear one of those hair net things on my dome. I'm guessing that most of the helmet haters here have never donned one. That's ok, but you're missing something if you don't. It's different, and that's not always bad. I'd say I break mine out about 13.7% of the time.

[nickrego]

You know, I'm not going to try and list every possible thing an umpire might see in their peripheral vision.

Let me just ask you to do this...

At your next game, just think about what 'things' you are seeing in your peripheral vision. I think you will find the list to be rather long. Especially when the pitch is getting close to the plate.

Or better yet, try to take your opponents point of view ! What if you were arguing FOR helmets. What list would you come up with to defend them ? Amazing things happen when you try to see things from someone elses point of view.

Although I am pretty adement about using helmets, I do understand why some don't like them. I don't disregard their opinions, or not respect their right to their opinion. I just hope that they are treating the issue fairly in their minds. In this case, the person evaluating this piece of equipment has everything to gain, or everything to lose. As with any decision.

[3appleshigh]

eg.

1) a hot shot off a bat up either line, you pick this up 5 times as fast, and can get into position to make fair foul that much sooner, Granted it is only a split second sooner, but helps.

2) you can see the player at first or third take off in an attempt to steal, therefore being prepared for what may or may not occur.

There is a couple just off the top of my head no real thinking involved. I know the first one is a major key to me, as I often had a difficult time picking up the hot shot in my original mask.

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by 3appleshigh
eg.

1) a hot shot off a bat up either line, you pick this up 5 times as fast, and can get into position to make fair foul that much sooner, Granted it is only a split second sooner, but helps.

2) you can see the player at first or third take off in an attempt to steal, therefore being prepared for what may or may not occur.

There is a couple just off the top of my head no real thinking involved. I know the first one is a major key to me, as I often had a difficult time picking up the hot shot in my original mask.

1. getting into position sooner on a shot down the line has nothing to do with your mask and its view. if i was looking through binoculars behind the plate, id still see the ball going towards a line and get out there. you arent, rather i hope you wouldnt, make a fair/foul call from behind the plate, so i dont see this point as too valid in my mind as a point for why to wear a helmet. if i see a ball that isnt going to be played by short or second, i get a view on that line. if its not close to the line, get up the first base line and watch things there. maybe im doing things wrong, but that peripheral view isnt going to change things for me there.

2. i see the runner take off of first just fine with a normal mask. i never had a problem as a catcher, and i can see this happen as an umpire. of course it is not entirely necessary for a PU to see a runner stealing unless you were doing a one man LL game where runners cant take off until it crosses the plate, and you have to call him out/safe at 2nd. if you are thinking like there is just a runner on first, and PU is taking the runner into third, you cant leave the plate till the ball is hit (obviously) and i hope to god you can see the runner by then with any mask. i dont see this point as necessary for me either.

those points may be helpful for other guys though, im just saying that they arent for some

[Kaliix]

Improved peripheral vision can only help. There is no way it is going to hurt, that is for sure. If you can't understand how it might help, then stick with a mask.

The wider view in a mask gives the wearer a better feel for the field. As I said before, wearing the HSM is a feel thing in terms of view

You cannot truly understand and appreciate the difference unless you have called a game in a HSM.

[3appleshigh]

I tell you right now, a hot shot up the line used to get me. I'm not proud of it, but it was true, I had trouble picking the ball up right from the bat on some occasion. In my first game with the helmet I saw a marked improvement in this area alone. With the extra view, the ball is in site more time, and therefore easier to pick up. Therefore better for me.

I like the better view of R1, it allows you to anticipate the play better, both for steals, see the pitch call the pitch make sure you are out of the catcher's way ect. it may not change anything you do at all, but you are more aware, also it sets you up better for possible pickoff plays, as you can see the runner and just how far his lead is, again may not change anything, but make you more aware and ready for possible balks, or rundowns or anything that may happen.

Also a good view of R3 is great to see if he is coming on a squeeze, stealing home or the like, again getting you a bit more ready for the possible plays/infractions.

None of these things will make or break a game or an umpire, these aren't things that you cannot do with a mask, these are things that the HSM make easier. Plus the added confidence of seeing much more will add to your being. The safty is obviously better, and the comfort in my opinon is far superior. The main down size is it is slightly more awkward in your hand, that's really it. And in my opinion, the mask is awkward as well, just less so.

So what I see are benifits in vision and safty, and a slight disadvantage in asthetics, it seems awfully silly that that would be someone's reason to not improve their abilities. And even more silly to bad mouth anyone who dares to use one.

To each his own, but don't make an arguement against the mask when you haven't even tried it, don't stick your head in the sand and simply say no. Is it for everyone, NO, even major league catchers don't all where one, but if they think it can improve thier game, why would you think that it cannot improve yours??

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by 3appleshigh
even major league catchers don't all where one, but if they think it can improve thier game, why would you think that it cannot improve yours??

ill tell you why i dont think it will "improve my game," because i have no problems with vision right now. i use an AUL300 (or 3000, whichever it is) and i have absolutely no problem seeing anything. if i did, i wouldnt use it, id find another mask or try the helmet. i can see the base coaches in my peripheral vision with a regular mask. i do not need to even see them, so i dont see why id need MORE of an open peripheral vision. i agree, and understand that it would not "hurt my game," but dont see a need for the change. if my car runs fine, and theres another one out there that runs fine as well, am i going to change? probably not. "if it aint broke, dont fix it."

if i run into trouble, i might look towards a hockey style mask

[nickrego]

There are a lot more reasons than Improved Vision for switching to a Helmet.

http://www.reegind.com/helmet.htm

And by the way, my horse used to think he could see everything, until one day I took off his Blinders. |:o)

What I am trying to say is, when I used a Mask, I thought I had great vision also. Then I looked through a different window.