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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 02, 2005, 12:39pm
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Question

Legion ball. U1 @ C.

Fly ball to RF line (250'). F9 made a diving catch going toward line.

How/Who is R3's tag seen?

Defensive Manager - "...Left early!"
Base Coach - "...On the bag"
Thanks.
mick

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 02, 2005, 01:01pm
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UIC, to the best of your ability. Try backing up 1B line, extended - it'll get you a better angle to glance at 3rd and still watch fair/foul, catch/no catch.
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Old Thu Jun 02, 2005, 03:02pm
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In my association, Matthew's stance on the mechanics is the right one.

If you are a devotee of "Referee" magazine, NFHS mechanics are that the BU picks up the tags on a "trouble" ball to right field and the HP umpire goes up the line to get a better vantage point.




Doug
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Old Thu Jun 02, 2005, 04:35pm
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Cool

Thanks, Folks.

I like the idea of U1 easing into a suitable position for both tags and PU moving up the line.

With PU moving back, it seems he's vulnerable to an unseen drop, ...but I guess the fans would let him know.

[This happened last night. With the sun setting in Right, and U1 with his back to R3 I found myself in a horrible position only a few (10') feet off the line extended fighting to see the catch.]
mick
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Old Thu Jun 02, 2005, 08:17pm
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Tough call!

Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Thanks, Folks.

I like the idea of U1 easing into a suitable position for both tags and PU moving up the line.

With PU moving back, it seems he's vulnerable to an unseen drop, ...but I guess the fans would let him know.

[This happened last night. With the sun setting in Right, and U1 with his back to R3 I found myself in a horrible position only a few (10') feet off the line extended fighting to see the catch.]
mick
In two man this is probably the hardest call. Not only does it not happen very often, usually we get just a routine catch to right.

But a trouble ball, PU has to go out to see it.

I can't see trying to explain it to the coach, "I can see it better if I back up etc.,"

Get the trouble ball first, that's most important. The runner at third is secondary.

If in doubt, he didn't leave early.

Thanks
David
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Old Thu Jun 02, 2005, 09:19pm
DG DG is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Legion ball. U1 @ C.

Fly ball to RF line (250'). F9 made a diving catch going toward line.

How/Who is R3's tag seen?

Defensive Manager - "...Left early!"
Base Coach - "...On the bag"
Thanks.
mick

PU move up the 1B line 10-15 feet to make the fair/foul call and catch/no catch call, while keeping R3 in periphereal vision. As soon as ball is touched he must glance back at 3B for the tag, and then quickly back to the ball for the catch/no catch. BU has BR all the way. Tough call for the PU to make, because if F9 is diving at a ball 250 feet from home R3 is going. Nobody can catch one diving from 250 feet, get up and throw R3 out so benefit of the doubt is to the runner because there should be no rush to leave 3B.
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Old Thu Jun 02, 2005, 10:26pm
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Cool Re: Tough call!

Quote:
Originally posted by David B
I can't see trying to explain it to the coach, "I can see it better if I back up etc.,"
David,
My explanation went something like, "Skip, neither of us saw him leave early. If he did leave early, I'm sorry we kicked it."

(Skippy's two base coaches each came to me at different times, and both said they didn't see what R3 was doing either because of the fine catch.)

mick
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Old Thu Jun 02, 2005, 10:51pm
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PU

Pu has it all. first off, fair/foul....catch/no catch, but the key here is the "touch" of the batted ball.The instant F9 gloves that baby, quick look at R3, that is the deciding factor, then see what happens out in pasture. BU in C aint got crap here
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Old Thu Jun 02, 2005, 11:10pm
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Re: Re: Tough call!

Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by David B
I can't see trying to explain it to the coach, "I can see it better if I back up etc.,"
David,
My explanation went something like, "Skip, neither of us saw him leave early. If he did leave early, I'm sorry we kicked it."

(Skippy's two base coaches each came to me at different times, and both said they didn't see what R3 was doing either because of the fine catch.)

mick
Very good game management Mick.

I point that out because we have many newer umpires who read the board and its not often that we see good game management skills used by umpires.

You told the coach very short and to the point and your were very honest.

Thanks
david
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Old Thu Jun 02, 2005, 11:28pm
DG DG is offline
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I would leave my partner out of this. "Coach, I glanced after the touch and in my opinion he tagged properly." My partner should be watching BR touch 1B.
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Old Fri Jun 03, 2005, 02:57am
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I had the same situation earlier on a thread. Can only treat it like being the BU with runners in 1st and 2nd and a fly ball to right or center. Get the lead runner then look back ad R1 and if he is close then he tagged properly.
Key to this, for me, is giving R3 a look to make sure he was on the bag to begin with. Get the catch then relook at him and if he is close he is good. If he is 3 or 4 steps off then he split too soon.

Another thing that has been suggested to me in this situation is BU takes tag of R3 and even R2 while PU gets catch/no catch fair/foul going up the line some but to do that you need a good pregame. Kind of like R1 and a roller up the 1b line or fly up the rf line. PU should holler "I got line" letting his partner know he needs to take runner to 3rd. I realize this is an unusual suggestion but maybe a mechanic worth looking into.
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Old Fri Jun 03, 2005, 05:45am
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Wink

Quote:
Originally posted by DG
I would leave my partner out of this. "Coach, I glanced after the touch and in my opinion he tagged properly." My partner should be watching BR touch 1B.
DG,
I agree, given the info I provided.
But when Skippy came out, I looked at my partner who shook his head [Didn't see it."]
Thanks.
mick
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Old Fri Jun 03, 2005, 08:03am
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Re: Re: Tough call!

Quote:
Originally posted by mick
My explanation went something like, "Skip, neither of us saw him leave early. If he did leave early, I'm sorry we kicked it."

mick
I've heard this situation referred to as the "$35 question" (as in, if they spent another $35 on an umpire, they'd have a proper answer to this question).
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Old Sat Jun 04, 2005, 02:39pm
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Re: Re: Re: Tough call!

Quote:


I've heard this situation referred to as the "$35 question" (as in, if they spent another $35 on an umpire, they'd have a proper answer to this question).
Excuse me, but who does Legion ball for only $35? That's was we get for Little League.
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Old Sat Jun 04, 2005, 02:45pm
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Tough call!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Lyle
Quote:


I've heard this situation referred to as the "$35 question" (as in, if they spent another $35 on an umpire, they'd have a proper answer to this question).
Excuse me, but who does Legion ball for only $35? That's was we get for Little League.
Ha. You mean you don't do LL for a hot dog and a Coke? Blasphemy! Blasphemy, I tell you!
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