I thought I knew this - Page 2

chris s · #16 (**permalink**) Sun May 22, 2005, 01:17am

hey coach, where ya at??? I'm in Monterey, ca We got some good ball here....just wondering...........

,,,,,,,,,,,,chris

thumpferee · #17 (**permalink**) Sun May 22, 2005, 04:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by CoachJM
chris s.,

No problem. Here's the rule:

Quote:

"7.05
Each runner including the batter runner may, without liability to be put out, advance_ ...(h) One base, if a ball, pitched to the batter, or thrown by the pitcher from his position on the pitcher's plate to a base to catch a runner, goes into a stand or a bench, or over or through a field fence or backstop. The ball is dead; APPROVED RULING: When a wild pitch or passed ball goes through or by the catcher, or deflects off the catcher, and goes directly into the dugout, stands, above the break, or any area where the ball is dead, the awarding of bases shall be one base. One base shall also be awarded if the pitcher while in contact with the rubber, throws to a base, and the throw goes directly into the stands or into any area where the ball is dead. If, however, the pitched or thrown ball goes through or by the catcher or through the fielder, and remains on the playing field, and is subsequently kicked or deflected into the dugout, stands or other area where the ball is dead, the awarding of bases shall be two bases from position of runners at the time of the pitch or throw."

I had forgotten that the "Approved Ruling" clarifying my assertion was included in the text of the rule. I should have just cited the text of the rule rather than a "secondary source" in the first place.

Now, I've got a couple of questions for you (really for any of the umpires on the board).

As you point out, the "exception" I offered in response to Matthew F.'s question doesn't happen very often. Frankly, I can't remember ever witnessing such a "play" in any game I've ever seen. But, let's say it did happen (it certainly could happen).

If I, as the offensive manager, were to appeal your award of 2B for my R1 as insufficient under the rule, what would you do?

If I requested one minute to go get my rulebook from the dugout so that I could show you the rule I thought was being misapplied, would you grant permission?

If you found my appeal unpersuasive and denied my request to reference the rulebook, would you look at a rulebook if I informed you I was protesting based on my belief that you had misapplied the rule?

Now I'm sure that many of the umpires who frequent this board would have ruled correctly in the first place. But I'm guessing that many of you would have ruled as chris s. suggested.

So, be honest. If you didn't know the proper rule on the "exception" I posed, answer the questions. I'm interested in your answers.

JM

JM

I have a question for you coach. Why would you as the offensive manager want to appeal a 2b award instead of 1 for your R1? Or were saying R1 was only given a 1b award? LIl confused.

Anyway, I would have a 1 base award if "the pitcher while in contact with the rubber, throws to a base, and the THROW goes directly into the stands or into any area where the ball is dead".

If the throw was just thrown over F3's head, and F9 comes in to back up the throw and accidentally kicks the ball into DBT while trying to pick it up, R1 is going to 3rd! If R1 reached 2nd by the time F9 kicked it, R2 would still only get 3rd because the award would be from the TOP or TOT in this case.

Same as if F9 picked up the ball and threw it to 3rd and the ball went into DBT, if R1 reached 2nd at TOT, R2 would be going home.

To answer your question, if you could show me the rule before play continues, I would change a ruling if misapplied. Depends on how you act though, cause I could always say "in my judgement, the ball was already out of play on the throw before the ball was kicked coach".

Rich · #18 (**permalink**) Sun May 22, 2005, 09:58am

Quote:

Originally posted by CoachJM
chris s.,

No problem. Here's the rule:

Quote:

"7.05
Each runner including the batter runner may, without liability to be put out, advance_ ...(h) One base, if a ball, pitched to the batter, or thrown by the pitcher from his position on the pitcher's plate to a base to catch a runner, goes into a stand or a bench, or over or through a field fence or backstop. The ball is dead; APPROVED RULING: When a wild pitch or passed ball goes through or by the catcher, or deflects off the catcher, and goes directly into the dugout, stands, above the break, or any area where the ball is dead, the awarding of bases shall be one base. One base shall also be awarded if the pitcher while in contact with the rubber, throws to a base, and the throw goes directly into the stands or into any area where the ball is dead. If, however, the pitched or thrown ball goes through or by the catcher or through the fielder, and remains on the playing field, and is subsequently kicked or deflected into the dugout, stands or other area where the ball is dead, the awarding of bases shall be two bases from position of runners at the time of the pitch or throw."

I had forgotten that the "Approved Ruling" clarifying my assertion was included in the text of the rule. I should have just cited the text of the rule rather than a "secondary source" in the first place.

Now, I've got a couple of questions for you (really for any of the umpires on the board).

As you point out, the "exception" I offered in response to Matthew F.'s question doesn't happen very often. Frankly, I can't remember ever witnessing such a "play" in any game I've ever seen. But, let's say it did happen (it certainly could happen).

If I, as the offensive manager, were to appeal your award of 2B for my R1 as insufficient under the rule, what would you do?

If I requested one minute to go get my rulebook from the dugout so that I could show you the rule I thought was being misapplied, would you grant permission?

If you found my appeal unpersuasive and denied my request to reference the rulebook, would you look at a rulebook if I informed you I was protesting based on my belief that you had misapplied the rule?

Now I'm sure that many of the umpires who frequent this board would have ruled correctly in the first place. But I'm guessing that many of you would have ruled as chris s. suggested.

So, be honest. If you didn't know the proper rule on the "exception" I posed, answer the questions. I'm interested in your answers.

JM

JM

Before a rule book would EVER come out, you'd have to protest the game. If you did, then I might be inclined, after talking with my partners, to look at it. Maybe. Maybe not.