How about htis one?

[scyguy]

You are BU in B, R1. Long fly ball to deep CF. R1 is stealing on play, as ball is still in flight, R1 rounds second and slams into F6 who is standing in the baseline. As BU you call obs. R1 then gathers himself and sees CF make a great catch of fly ball. He then retreats to first in a straightline direction and does not retouch second. He makes it back to first before throw beats him. Now, what do you do as BU??

[orioles35]

Sounds like two separate plays.

The OBS was on the runner moving towards 3rd. Once the runner realized he needed to go back to 1st, that is a separate issue the OBS did not preclude him from...in fact it probably helped leave him closer to first. I'd say unless the defensive team appealed "no retouch", leave play as is with R1.

[scyguy]

but you called OBS! Come on Tim, what you got.

[UmpJM]

scyguy,

Is the game being played under FED or OBR? While I'm not positive, I believe the governing ruleset makes a material difference in the answer to your question.

Now, if you are only interested in Tim's answer, my aoplogies for "eavesdropping" on your "discussion".

JM

[Carbide Keyman]

I'll give it a shot.

Without benefit of my OBR in front of me, and assuming time was called after the play, wouldn't you award R1 second base (one base from last legally touched). Once the ball is put back in play, if the defensive team appeals the miss of second base, call R1 out.


Let the beatings begin !!!!!



Doug

[bob jenkins]

(I'm assuming R1 passed near the base)

In OBR it's easy. It's Type B obstruction, so there's no "automatic penalty". Just wait for the appeal at second.

FED #1) In FED, there's supposed to be a 1-base minimum award. But, that doesn't protect the runner from baserunning errors. So, if the defense appeals the miss at second while the ball is still live, the runner is still out. If they don't, then award second and deny any subsequent appeal under the "last time by".

FED #2) It wasn't really obstruction since the runner wasn't hindered from advancing or returning. It was a "call made in error" and can be reversed. Reverse it, and apply the OBR ruling.

[UmpJM]

Bob J.,

I'm still trying to learn the FED rules (actually, the OBR rules, too - I'm just a little "further along" there). You got the "gist" of my comment regarding FED vs. OBR in reference to scyguy's sitch.

But there's still something puzzling to me. As I understand it, under FED rules, "verbal appeals" are "properly constituted" and may occur whether or not the ball is "in play".

So, in your FED #1 response (i.e. the umpire did judge "obstruction") if, after the umpire called "time" and indicated the award of 2B to R1, he would still be properly called out (on appeal) if the defense made a "verbal appeal" of his failure to touch 2B in returning to "retouch" 1B while the ball was "in play" if the verbal appeal was made any time prior to the runner "completing" the award by actually touching 2B.

Is that correct?

JM

[IveGot3rd]

Don't have my HS rules handy at the moment, but.....Obstruction in FED is always a 'delayed dead ball'. I believe that is a term unique to FED (like so many other things). In the situation described, under FED rules, the BU would punch out a fist parallel to the ground, the mechanic for DDB, and wait until the play ends deciding how far he will protect the runner. If he had not reached that base, he would be awarded at the end of play. With that said, in the original situation,I'd say the catch nullifies the obstruction and R1 would be out on proper appeal.

IG3

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by CoachJM
Bob J.,

I'm still trying to learn the FED rules (actually, the OBR rules, too - I'm just a little "further along" there). You got the "gist" of my comment regarding FED vs. OBR in reference to scyguy's sitch.

But there's still something puzzling to me. As I understand it, under FED rules, "verbal appeals" are "properly constituted" and may occur whether or not the ball is "in play".

So, in your FED #1 response (i.e. the umpire did judge "obstruction") if, after the umpire called "time" and indicated the award of 2B to R1, he would still be properly called out (on appeal) if the defense made a "verbal appeal" of his failure to touch 2B in returning to "retouch" 1B while the ball was "in play" if the verbal appeal was made any time prior to the runner "completing" the award by actually touching 2B.

Is that correct?

JM

No, that's not correct. Baserunning awards must be finished before there can be a dead-ball verbal appeal. See "Appeal Procedures #3"

[UmpJM]

Bob J.,

Got it. Thank you.

JM