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Here's the play, which I didn't hear it tip (and neither did the base umpire).
Runner on 1st. Pitch bounces in the dirt (in front of the plate) and somehow bounces over and hits the bat and goes back to the screen. Call? As I said, neither my partner or I heard a tip, I just saw that it deflected off the end of the catcher's glove and went back to the screen. Catcher wasn't too happy and I probably should have ejected him for his tone/agruing the call. |
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TJ,
From your info I assume you called ball and R1 advanced on WP. If that's what you saw than stick with your call and tell F2 to cool it. If the pitch did indeed bounce and hit the bat then you have a foul ball. But no matter, that's not what you saw...correct? Mike |
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tjones,
I'm not quite sure what the question is. One of the things I have trouble teaching my players is that it doesn't matter what really happened. What matters is what happened in the judgement of the umpire. This is a a somewhat difficult concept to comprehend, but it's pretty clear in the text and interpretations of the rules. Sounds like this was, by rule, a "wild pitch". It may have also been a "bad call" by the umpire(s), but that's just part of the game. I suggest to my players that they simply "deal with it" and focus on the things they have the possibility of influencing. On the other hand, if, in the umpire's judgement, the pitch bounced, hit the bat, and went back to the screen, that would be a "foul ball". JM |
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Correct. I called it a ball and the coach came out to question it and asked if I would get some help from my partner. So I called time and went and asked him. He said he didn't hear anything. So it stood, ball and the runner advanced. I very well could have missed the tip, I'm not saying I didn't. But what I had was there was no tip. Whenever the coach was talking to me about it, he asked if I automatically call a pitch in the dirt a "dead ball". That's why I asked about the call ["Runner on 1st. Pitch bounces in the dirt (in front of the plate) and somehow bounces over and hits the bat and goes back to the screen. Call?]. Didn't know exactly know what he was trying to get at -- or if there was a rule I didn't know about. I told F2: "It is highly recommended that you don't ever speak with that tone to me or any other official ever again." Thanks for the quick replies. |
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[Edited by DG on May 4th, 2005 at 12:17 AM] |
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Bob |
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Right, I agree. Sorry for boggling that up. Just doubling checking that is the call if it happened. As I said, I didn't hear/see it hit the bat (and neither did my partner), therefore I called it a ball. Again, thanks for hanging in there with me DG. Time to hit the sack here!
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Now the other team may truly believe that it was a "good call". I think "Correct or incorrect call" is more appropriate. |
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I am not being sarcastic either - honestly. I think a "bad call" is when the umpire(s) did not see what actually happened and make their ruling on the basis of that faulty perception. Now, I've been coaching long enough to realize that perception is affected by experience, and, to an even greater degree, bias. (Reference: G.W.F. Hegel, "Phenomenology of Mind") That is, my perception of what actually happened is affected by my desire that my team do well. In general, the umpire's perception is going to be more accurate than mine, all else being equal, especially on "close calls". I have (perhaps grudgingly) come to hold the opinion that "umpire judgement" is an essential element of the game of baseball. I try to teach this to my players (whose perception is even more suspect than my own in many cases). That is, under the rules of baseball, it doesn't really matter what they saw happen or what I saw happen - it only matters what the umpire saw happen. It says that right in the rules! Besides, usually the umpires are the only people at the game who really don't care one way or another who wins the game - the players care, the coaches care, the fans care - the umpires don't. Therefore, their perception, all things being equal, is likely to be the most accurate of anyone at the game. (I've developed a sneaking suspicion that some umpires may have certain subtle biases - say towards an "out" over a "safe" or a "strike" over a "ball" - but not at the expense of one team or in favor of the other. But we'll save that discussion for another thread.) Now I was probably a little hasty in characterizing tjones1's ruling a "bad call" - it's entirely possible that his perception that the ball did not hit the bat was accurate. However, when my perception of what happened matches the opposing coach's perception, and the umpire saw something different, I'm reasonably confident he didn't see what really happened. For example, in a game last Saturday when I was coaching, the opposing team's batter was called out despite the fact that he clearly beat the throw to 1B. That's what I saw ( and I wanted the runner to be out), that's what the opposing team's 1B coach saw. To me, that was a "bad call". In my mind, an "incorrect call" is when the umpire misapplies the rules in making a call based on his judgement of what happened. I find that thinking of it this way helps me approach the "discussion" with the umpire in the proper frame of mind when I request "time" to appeal (and, possibly, protest) his ruling. It wasn't a terrible call; it wasn't the most ridiculous call I've ever seen; it was simply "incorrect" (at least I believe it was). Hey, everybody makes mistakes. I do. Maybe the umpire did in this case. So, that's how I think of it. JM |
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Bob |
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1. We wouldn't have time to conduct a full discussion. 2. You would probably win the discussion anyway. Have a good day. |
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