OBR Balk where does it say this?

[lc_huxter]

Situation. R1 only. RHP. Where does it say in OBR that he can not do the following.

RHP in the "stretch" picks his left leg straight up and turns his whole body while incontact with the rubber with his right foot. He then steps directly towards first base and throws the ball to first.


He do the exact same thing trying to pick someone off at 2nd or 3rd, but not 1st? I have also heard that a RHP can do the same thing as LHP.

Ofcourse we called this a balk and no one argued with us, but I would like to know where it says you can not do this in the OBR book.

Thanks

[andrewm]

It doesn't. Just practically impossible to do physically without his left leg starting toward the plate, which would be a balk.

[thumpferee]

8.01b (c) At any time during the pitcher's preliminary movements and until his natural pitching motion commits him to the pitch, he may throw to any base provided he steps directly toward such base before making the throw.

[UmpJM]

lc_huxter,

To me, the key factor is that he has failed to meet the 8.05(c) requirement that:

"the pitcher, while touching his plate, to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base. ...

"...A pitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base but does not require him to throw (except to first base only) because he steps. "

That is, I believe it is virtually impossible for a RHP to have any "significant lift" or "bend of the knee" of his free leg without moving his free foot in the direction of 3B.

If you try this at home yourself (i.e. lift the free leg without moving the free foot closer to 3B), you will see that, although it can be done, you're so off-balance and it's so unnatural that it's nothing you ever would do in an actual game.

Since, by lifting his free leg, the RHP's free foot has gained "distance and direction" towards 3B, he has failed the "direct" part of the 8.05(c) requirement.

This is why it's legal for a LHP to lift his leg, just as he normally does when he is starting his pitching delivery, and throw to 1B. He is stepping "directly" towards 1B on the pick-off throw.

I also think the phrase: "...commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration....." found in both 8.01(a) & 8.01(b) also supports this interpretation. While the "interruption" part of this phrase is, in my experience at least, pretty commonly understood (i.e., once the pitcher is engaged he can't start to do something then stop and then start again), I find that the "alteration" part of the phrase is regularly misunderstood and misapplied.

Many people seem to think it means "as long as he does it the same way every time, he's OK" (pitch or pick-off). Or, conversely, if he doesn't do it the same way every time, he's illegal.

I think it means that an "in contact" pitcher can't start to do one thing and then change it into something else - even if he does it "smoothly and continuously".

In the specific case of a RHP pitching from a SET position, once he lifts his free foot and gains "direction and distance" towards 3B, he has "started" to do one of three things:

1. A pick-off to 3B.

2. A pick-off to 2B.

3. A pitch to the batter.

Once his free foot crosses the back plane of the rubber, he has "started" to do one of two things:

1. A pick -off to 2B.

2. A pitch to the batter.

Once he makes any motion towards home plate, he only has one thing left to do legally:

1. Pitch to the batter.

Of course, if there is only an R1, once his free foot starts moving in a direction other than 1B the only legal thing for him to do is deliver a pitch, I guess you could say that it's a

"...natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter (which) commits him to the pitch ..."

Anyway, that's how I think of it. Of course I could be completely wrong, but this seems to work for me, and, I think, explains why a LHP "can" and a RHP "can't" when going to 1B.

JM

[aevans410]

If I'm reading your description of that move right and unless there is something that I'm missing, its legal providing the pitchers non pivot foot doesn't break the back edge of the pitchers plate and its done without a pause. Its slower than heck though and won't get too many runners, which is why most RHP's prefer the "jump step".


I just read CoachJM's post and I am editing due to that.

His post states he lifts his leg, turns in one motion, then steps and then throws. That seems legal to me. I can honestly say I've never seen the move, although I have seen it with a LHP to 3rd.

Gaining direction and distance towards one base and throwing towards another is accomplished all of the time. According to your definintion, any pitcher who lifts his non pivot foot towards 1st and 3rd then continues around to 2nd has balked.

[Edited by aevans410 on May 2nd, 2005 at 05:15 PM]

[UmpJM]

aevans410,

Actually, I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with you on this. It all depends on how you interpret/picture lc_huxter's description.

Here's what I think.

1. If the RHP significantly lifts his free foot and the knee of that leg towards balance, such that his foot starts to move in the direction of 3B and his "whole body turn" moves his left shoulder in the direction of 3B, and then reverses direction and throws a pickoff to 1B, he has BALKED under 8.05(c).

2. If, on the other hand, the RHP lifts his free foot slightly, starts moving it in the direction of 1B and his "whole body turn" is such that he is "opening" his left shoulder in the direction of 1B, followed by a step and throw to 1B, all in a "continuous motion", he is perfectly legal.

JM

[aevans410]

It is possible, with runners on first and third, for the pitcher to step toward third and not throw, merely to bluff the runner back to third; then seeing the runner on first start for second, turn and step toward and throw to first base. This is legal. However, if, with runners on first and third, the pitcher, while in contact with the rubber, steps toward third and then immediately and in practically the same motion "wheels" and throws to first base, it is obviously an attempt to deceive the runner at first base, and in such a move it is practically impossible to step directly toward first base before the throw to first base, and such a move shall be called a balk.

In this passage from OBR 8.05c, it seems were both actually right. It all depends on if he actually steps towards first before throwing, which you said is practically impossible to do and retire a runner. The pitcher would have to be awful agile or the runner be extremely slow for it to be effective.

[bob jenkins]

This rule is the same in all codes. The NCAA rule has the "best" description:

(1) The pitcher, while touching the pitcher’s rubber, must step toward
the base, preceding or simultaneous with any move toward that
base. The pitcher is committed, upon raising the lead leg, to throw
to the base being faced, to second base or to the plate. When throwing
or feinting a throw to a base not being faced, the pitcher must
step immediately, directly and gain ground toward that base.

(end of quote)

IT all hinges on "raising the lead leg". If the "raising" is "toward the balance point" then the above applies. If it's just enough so the spikes clear the ground and is simultaneously accompanied by a hip rotation toward first, then the move is legal.