If I did not know any better...

[Tim C]

This says it all,

" . . . Before I started umpiring I coached HS baseball for 13 years. As a coach my teams won 7 district titles, 4 sectional titles and two trips to the state tournament. As a coach . . ."

Another Emerling . . .

Don't sprain your arm.

[scyguy]

I am sure all of the big dogs have left this thread and said they are not to return. But if you do then maybe you could explain comments like:

"Your reputation will be one of an umpire who (1)squeezes pitchers and (2) doesn't know how to call a good corner".

I know how to call a corner, not a pitch 2-3" off of the black, that is not a corner.


"But, if you like calling balls and consistently have 3 hr games. Be our guest. Now when you get to the Pros, well good job and we hope you come back to give us your input then, too".


So does this mean that we should not immenuate what the pros do?



"I also am considered a "pitcher's umpire." Do I "expand" the strike zone . . . nope, I just call more of it than some".


Expand --No, More of it--Yes? You mean you call the strike zone defined in the rulebook PLUS additional areas?


I come to this website mainly for guidance from much more seasoned officials than I. Do I take my share of "slaps"? Sure, it comes with the territory. I have learned alot from this forum. But messing with the strike zone seems wrong.

I have admired the way you guys are sticklers for the rulebook. "If it is a balk, then call it!" "If it is in the rulebook, then you must enforce it". But now when it comes to the strike zone it is okay to change the guidelines. Wow, I'm disillusioned by this inconsistency. I think maybe there is a good reason for it. But all I get is a time thing, or batters can adjust, or boring 14-13 with 26 walks.

Please convince me of the err of my ways, because at this moment I am very disappointed in most of the responses.

I have always not liked the adage "We get paid to call strikes and outs". We get paid to do our job!!

[scyguy]

jcone, that is the strike zone I am talking about!!!!!!!!!! Maybe we are on the wrong page. I do call that strike zone. But I don't call 2" CLEARANCE between the ball and the plate!! That is what I have been saying ALL ALONG!!!

Do any of you "big dogs" strike a pitch with 2" of CLEARANCE between the inside of the ball (outside pitch) and the black???? If no, then we are on the same page. If yes, then you possibly can understand my confusion.

[Tim C]

It was noted:

"Please convince me . . . "

I only try to "convince" people who want to learn and improve.

[scyguy]

okay Tim I don't want to get in a fight with you. You are the man, I am a pile of crap, FINE.

I feel like a man screaming underwater.

.....only want to learn??? Why do you think I am here. My God.

Please accept my sincerest apologizies. I am sure that I failed to explain myself properly. Have a good day, I have to go umpire now.

[Edited by scyguy on Apr 19th, 2005 at 03:54 PM]

[Tim C]

I'm still three hours from game time.

"Stealin'money today", as my friend Rich would say.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by scyguy

So does this mean that we should not immenuate what the pros do?

Immenuate?

You say you come here to learn. Mostly what I see, though, is that you come here to argue (or play devil's advocate, or ask overly broad questions, ...)

Those are all ways of learning. There are better ways, imho.

[scyguy]

Bob, I don't want to come across as someone that is here to argue, I only want to completely understand an issue. Some times my methods are less than perfect.

My zone in and out is usually limited to inch or so of clearance from black. Does it change? Sure. Low level baseball, blowouts and JV games, I will give more. Low pitches I feel are too often called strikes. I try to make pitcher get the top of ball at the base of the knee. It helps me to watch ball into glove and see if catcher turns glove over or even drops the top part of his glove. This is assuming he is not throwing off-speed pitches. The top of the zone is determined by my eye level in the heel-to-toe stance I use. I was taught to place my head so that pitches in my chin area would be the upper part of the zone. It seems to work well. A problem I have, however, is when I use the GD stance determining the vertical part of the zone. I am working on it and hope to improve.

I want to apologize for my statements yesterday. I wasn't in the best of moods and said things I probably shouldn't have said. You guys can think whether you want of me, but your comments for the most part have been very helpful to me.

Tim, I only commented on my experience as a coach to try and qualify my position from a coaching standpoint. I did not intend to blow my own horn. I am very proud of my success as a coach as you are proud of the work that you do. I worked very hard at being a good coach and I try and bring that same dedication to my umpiring. Being good at something is a journey of ups and downs. But striving for perfection is an admirable quality. Some of you are already there, but some of us are still working at it.

Finally, my comments yesterday centered more on allowing more than 2 inches of clearance outside the black. I cannot see you guys with the quality of baseball that you do calling this a strike. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. But as some of you have pointed out, consistency is the key. That is the holy grail.

[cowbyfan1]

Where this has gone!! I am offline for a couple days and it is all over the place. My point was pitchers hitting their spots, not what is the strike zone. It was also not ripping into Texas umpires by any means. That is why it is titled "If I didn't know any better.."

Tim thank you for your posts. Per usual you were on the mark. I think scguy is actually there as well in reading all this, just not really coming accross as he is.. He keeps saying 17" but if I am reading him right he will call that inside edge of the ball on the outside white edge of the plate.

In responce to what was asked of me before. In theory my strike zone is "17 inches" wide but in practice no. If the catcher is set up inside I will give the inside edge "the black" and even an inch more, but I will not let the catcher dive back across the plate to the outside corner, even if it pass over white a little. Everyone in the park see him diving out and expects it will be a ball. Conversely I do the same if he is set up on the outside corner. However if he moves that glove out a couple inches I will ball that pitch as it is too far out and basically unhittable. I will not be Eric Greg. Example, 0-2 count and the catcher slides outside just off the plate. The pitch hits the catchers mit square. It will be a ball as probably 95% of the coaches realize that it is a ball. They are just trying to get the hitter to chase that pitch. Works great with a decent slider/2 seam that breaks off the plate. 4 seam, not so much. Now if the pitcher "misses" his mark a little and the catcher reaches a little back towards the plate but catches the ball inside his frame, I will call that a strike, as it was there on the plate.

As far as the catcher catching it and how he catches it, yes it is important but not critical. If the pitch is borderline low and he turns his fingers down, it is a ball. If it is a "cock shot" and he drops it, I will stike that pitch. If he is on a corner and he drops it but keeps it in front of him, I will strike that. If it goes to the backstop, ball. If he rises up and blocks my view ball. If the coaches asks where that pitch was, I simple tell him the catcher thought it was high and came up to where I could not see it, so I have to expect that the pitch was high. Ususally is folled by the coach telling his catcher to stay down on those pitches.

In theory, a bad catcher may cost his pitcher 4 or 5 pitches per game, at the most (ok some may do even more). A great catcher will help his pitcher a few pitches a game by making those borderline pitches look great, usually with a good stick.

As well, if a catcher is set up in the middle of the plate. I will give a little bit of a reach to the corners and even let the catcher lean a bit. In warmups I tell the catcher if he wants to stay behind the point, I will give them the reach to get that inside corner or to make sure they slide back a bit if they do set up inside, whatever it takes so I can see that inside pitch. Outside corner I don't tho as they can set up there and I can see the plate without a problem.

Also don't miscontrue me either. I am not saying a pitcher has to hit the glove exactly where the catcher puts it. He needs to keep it basically in the catchers "frame".

wheeew.. Sorry so long but I think I hit on all that was asked of me or commented on..

[scyguy]

just for the record, I NEVER mentioned 17". Never. I spoke of clearance between ball and black. Rulebook defines circumference of ball, dimension of the white part of the plate and a strike is when any part of the ball crosses the plate. That sounds like a 22" plate to me.

I'm not real sure why I was the goat on this one. Maybe I did not state myself clearly. By the end of the thread I was labeled an argumentative, hardheaded jerk.

In the future I will try to be as specific as I possibly can. Definitely don't want the gang to bury me again.

By the way, do any of you watch the TV show "House"? Extremely knowledgeable doctor with a "unique" bed side manner? Great show!!

[LMan]

[QUOTEBy the way, do any of you watch the TV show "House"? Extremely knowledgeable doctor with a "unique" bed side manner? Great show!! [/B][/QUOTE]

yeah, but he wears two ballbags and dusts off the trashcans when he makes his rounds