F1 moving his glove to give the signals again

[whatgameyouwatchinblue]

Originally posted by gordon30307

In my "nape of the neck" this is not called. And before I get "what other rules aren't you calling today" line I agree as per Fed. that it is a balk. If the powers that be want it called than by all means call it. Personally I don't see it as being deceptive everyone knows (at least in my area) that the pitcher is asking for another signal. Where I'm at if I called it I'd be accused of "nit picking". Sort of like Coaches sitting on their buckets outside the dugout. By rule they should be in the dugout. However if they get taken out by a foul ball. Hey it's only one less guy that I gotta deal with. LOL

Im sure someone is going to call me OOO again but here we go.

In my "nape of the neck" we are required to keep live ball area cleaned up. Including coaches on buckets. In fact we dont have a problem with coaches on buckets, they know they need to be in the dead ball area.

letting a coach keep his bucket in a live ball area can cause way more problems than telling a coach to sit on the bucket in dead ball.

[gobama84]

This is exactly why I quit playing Monopoly years ago. Everyone wants to make up their own rules. Play by the written rule or start your own "FED". Oh, I'm sorry, looks like some of you have already done that.

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by whatgameyouwatchinblue

Im sure someone is going to call me OOO again but here we go.

In my "nape of the neck" we are required to keep live ball area cleaned up. Including coaches on buckets. In fact we dont have a problem with coaches on buckets, they know they need to be in the dead ball area.

letting a coach keep his bucket in a live ball area can cause way more problems than telling a coach to sit on the bucket in dead ball.

Hey, If it's common practice where you work than you should keep the Coaches out of the live ball area. If it's common practice where you work to balk waving off the signal with the glove than you should balk the pitcher. Where I work this is OOO.

[Tim C]

Please direct me to the FED ruling that says we consider "past practice" or area "habit". I'll even post it here if you lead me that way.

Read the POEs Gordon . . . especially the one about Professionalism.

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by Tim C
Please direct me to the FED ruling that says we consider "past practice" or area "habit". I'll even post it here if you lead me that way.

Read the POEs Gordon . . . especially the one about Professionalism.

There is none. You know that. I also know what happens when the Salmon makes it up river.

[officialtony]

Would it be out of line to give a warning to both teams the first time I see that glove-for-a-new-sign move (I confess, I have not seen that yet in two years - I only do high school ball )? I want to enforce the rules, but that is one I'm guessing most kids don't know. Just asking. If not, I accept the wisdom of the balk call because it is a FED rule. I hope I never see it. Takes me off the hook for being OOO in some eyes.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Tim C
Please direct me to the FED ruling that says we consider "past practice" or area "habit". I'll even post it here if you lead me that way.

Read the POEs Gordon . . . especially the one about Professionalism.

Tee,

Somebody's record is broken, isn't it? Please let me know how your effort to keep coaches in their boxes is going sometime.

--Rich

[Rich]

Originally posted by gobama84
This is exactly why I quit playing Monopoly years ago. Everyone wants to make up their own rules. Play by the written rule or start your own "FED". Oh, I'm sorry, looks like some of you have already done that.

Ouch. That hurt. I'm going to go cry now.

[Tim C]

Rich:

I have never even tried to keep a coach in his box. You know that . . .

The fun of this discussion is that as little as a year ago I was a "common/sense and fair play" guy . . . do you think anyone has yet to notice the difference.

It is rainy and cloudy and I have the bases in three hours.

ick!

[Rich]

Originally posted by Tim C
Rich:

I have never even tried to keep a coach in his box. You know that . . .

The fun of this discussion is that as little as a year ago I was a "common/sense and fair play" guy . . . do you think anyone has yet to notice the difference.

It is rainy and cloudy and I have the bases in three hours.

ick!

I still think you are trying to show the ridiculousness of some of these idiotic rules, but I may be wrong.

70 and sunny here with no games until tomorrow. College DH, where I know I won't have to worry about anything more than the designated hitter rule

--Rich

[whatgameyouwatchinblue]

i never said i agreed with the rule. i was told from my comish that we will call by the book. It also seems that pretty much the state of Oregon is on this also. I know tee is in Portland, Im down on the southcoast.

In tonights game my partner called a balk on the Gorilla stance a half second before i could call it. The coach comes flyin out of the dug out and yells to his pitcher, "damn it Bret how many times is that gonna get called before you figure it out".

As the coach was walking by me in the half inning he told me the same thing was called on him the week before in the valley. A whole nother assoc.

Thats good stuff.

Also i did not say i keep coaches in dead ball or in the box. I said i kept those damn buckets in dead ball.

[GarthB]

First we read: "i (sic) was told from (sic) my comish that we will call by the book."

Then we read: "Also i (sic) did not say i (sic) keep coaches in dead ball or in the box."

Which is it?

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by officialtony
Would it be out of line to give a warning to both teams the first time I see that glove-for-a-new-sign move (I confess, I have not seen that yet in two years - I only do high school ball )? I want to enforce the rules, but that is one I'm guessing most kids don't know. Just asking. If not, I accept the wisdom of the balk call because it is a FED rule. I hope I never see it. Takes me off the hook for being OOO in some eyes.

My association hosts a meeting with all the area coaches. This season, I was in charge. As the rules interpreter, likely I'll be in charge next season as well.

This year I specifically went over 6.1.2d. During scrimmages we instructed our umpires to remind the coaches of the NFHS ruling. Of course, that play has been in the casebook since 1998!

We have new head coaches every year, so we carefully cover the NFHS balk regulations. These new guys, often straight from some college team, are generally surprised by the specificity of FED balk rules.

When an out-of-area team comes to call, we always warn the pitchers -- more than once. (We want them to come back. So do the home town coaches.)

Our experience is that when coaches and pitchers know what the umpires will enforce, they stay away from infractions.

Finally, we believe that when we don't enforce the rules (where there's no wiggle room), we do our teams a disservice when they leave the area.

Don't misunderstand: We ignore plenty of rules. Everybody does. David B, while wrong about this - grin -, points out that fact very well.

Before you get uptight and start yelling that I'm always ignoring some rule that I don't like, recognize the rules I'm talking about here are the proprietary rules, those that are unique to the NFHS.

I can list a few:

1. penalty for touching ball with illegal glove
2. no pick-off from the wind-up
3. DH bats for any player
4. moving two hands simultaneously on the rubber is the start of a pitch
5. step with both feet into dead-ball territory kills play and live runners get one base
6. jewelry and associated 3-3-1 infractions
7. dead ball appeals
8. hurdling over defensive players
9. Etc.

People who believe enforcing those rules is OOO should rethink their commitment to the rule of law.


[Edited by Carl Childress on Apr 16th, 2005 at 11:29 PM]

[Rich]

Originally posted by Carl Childress

My association hosts a meeting with all the area coaches. This season, I was in charge. As the rules interpreter, likely I'll be in charge next season as well.

This year I specifically went over 6.1.2d. During scrimmages we instructed our umpires to remind the coaches of the NFHS ruling. Of course, that play has been in the casebook since 1998!

We have new head coaches every year, so we carefully cover the NFHS balk regulations. These new guys, often straight from some college team, are generally surprised by the specificity of FED balk rules.

When an out-of-area team comes to call, we always warn the pitchers -- more than once. (We want them to come back. So do the home town coaches.)

Our experience is that when coaches and pitchers know what the umpires will enforce, they stay away from infractions.

Finally, we believe that when we don't enforce the rules (where there's no wiggle room), we do our teams a disservice when they leave the area.

Don't misunderstand: We ignore plenty of rules. Everybody does. David B, while wrong about this - grin -, points out that fact very well.

Before you get uptight and start yelling that I'm always ignoring some rule that I don't like, recognize the rules I'm talking about here are the proprietary rules, those that are unique to the NFHS.

I can list a few:

1. penalty for touching ball with illegal glove
2. no pick-off from the wind-up
3. DH bats for any player
4. moving two hands simultaneously on the rubber is the start of a pitch
5. step with both feet into dead-ball territory kills play and live runners get one base
6. jewelry and associated 3-3-1 infractions
7. dead ball appeals
8. hurdling over defensive players
9. Etc.

People who believe enforcing those rules is OOO should rethink their commitment to the rule of law.


[Edited by Carl Childress on Apr 16th, 2005 at 11:29 PM]

OK, OK. Only 4 probably wouldn't get any attention around here.

BTW, I was working a college DH today and saw my first really obnoxious gorilla arm. Interesting -- I couldn't see what it did for him, actually.

[whatgameyouwatchinblue]

Originally posted by GarthB
First we read: "i (sic) was told from (sic) my comish that we will call by the book."

Then we read: "Also i (sic) did not say i (sic) keep coaches in dead ball or in the box."

Which is it?

alright ill bite, Im a blue collar worker who likes to work ball in his spare time, So to make you feel superior what does (sic) mean?

I dont believe that im an OOO. We feel we do teams a diservice if we dont call these kinds of balks in regular season. Once post season begins they will be called. No warnings. '

The turning point for me was last football season. Keeping the coaches off the field was not a priority. Until i keeped getting knicked on my eval. It was easier for me to keep the coaches of the field than it was to miss a playoff assingment for not enforcing a simple rule.