Interesting IFF Call

bwbuddy · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 12, 2005, 06:37am

Bases loaded, 1 out. Popup to F6, IFF is called, catch is made. R2 had wandered off of the bag, and tries to get back. F4 receives throw with foot on bag prior to R2's return, but ump rules the runner safe since he was not tagged. He said that batter would have been out regardless of whether popup was caught, so R2 had to be tagged off base.

bob jenkins · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 12, 2005, 06:51am

Quote:

Originally posted by bwbuddy
Bases loaded, 1 out. Popup to F6, IFF is called, catch is made. R2 had wandered off of the bag, and tries to get back. F4 receives throw with foot on bag prior to R2's return, but ump rules the runner safe since he was not tagged. He said that batter would have been out regardless of whether popup was caught, so R2 had to be tagged off base.

The umpire was wrong. An Infield Fly doesn't remove the runner's responsibility to touch the base after the ball is caught (touched) and it doesn't remove the defense's right to appeal the runner's mistake.

Rich · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 12, 2005, 08:41am

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by bwbuddy
Bases loaded, 1 out. Popup to F6, IFF is called, catch is made. R2 had wandered off of the bag, and tries to get back. F4 receives throw with foot on bag prior to R2's return, but ump rules the runner safe since he was not tagged. He said that batter would have been out regardless of whether popup was caught, so R2 had to be tagged off base.

The umpire was wrong. An Infield Fly doesn't remove the runner's responsibility to touch the base after the ball is caught (touched) and it doesn't remove the defense's right to appeal the runner's mistake.

All the IFF rule does is remove the subsequent force on the runners since the batter is out (nobody left to force the runners). You still have to tag up (as in any fly ball) and the defense can still appeal to the base (which is what your play is) for a runner leaving early.

Had the ball dropped and the runners run THEN the runners would have to be tagged as the IFF removes the FORCE.

scyguy · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 12, 2005, 09:14am

Had an IFF a few weeks ago, R1 and R2, 2B camped under it about 6 -8 feet in the outfield grass directly behind 2B. I called IFF. 2B drops ball!! Ordinary effort? Yes!! Coach says nothing but fans go crazy. They are yelling at me that IFF cannot be called when ball is in the outfield grass. Made for a "fun" four or five minutes. When inning was over, fan nicely asked me about the IFF being caught in the grass. I calmly stated the conditions for IFF and stated that the rule was designed more to protect the runners. In fact, a smart infielder could let the ball fall and double up the runners. He understood, but this old guy was still upset. He said "I seen 5000 game and never seen in called in the grass". I looked at him and said, "get a rulebook, then we can talk".

Rich · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 12, 2005, 09:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by scyguy
Had an IFF a few weeks ago, R1 and R2, 2B camped under it about 6 -8 feet in the outfield grass directly behind 2B. I called IFF. 2B drops ball!! Ordinary effort? Yes!! Coach says nothing but fans go crazy. They are yelling at me that IFF cannot be called when ball is in the outfield grass. Made for a "fun" four or five minutes. When inning was over, fan nicely asked me about the IFF being caught in the grass. I calmly stated the conditions for IFF and stated that the rule was designed more to protect the runners. In fact, a smart infielder could let the ball fall and double up the runners. He understood, but this old guy was still upset. He said "I seen 5000 game and never seen in called in the grass". I looked at him and said, "get a rulebook, then we can talk".

I'd tell him he doesn't watch enough baseball then.

Rich · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 12, 2005, 09:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Mills

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Quote:

Originally posted by scyguy
Had an IFF a few weeks ago, R1 and R2, 2B camped under it about 6 -8 feet in the outfield grass directly behind 2B. I called IFF. 2B drops ball!! Ordinary effort? Yes!! Coach says nothing but fans go crazy. They are yelling at me that IFF cannot be called when ball is in the outfield grass. Made for a "fun" four or five minutes. When inning was over, fan nicely asked me about the IFF being caught in the grass. I calmly stated the conditions for IFF and stated that the rule was designed more to protect the runners. In fact, a smart infielder could let the ball fall and double up the runners. He understood, but this old guy was still upset. He said "I seen 5000 game and never seen in called in the grass". I looked at him and said, "get a rulebook, then we can talk".

I'd tell him he doesn't watch enough baseball then.

You guys discuss rulings with fans?

If I'm walking to the car and someone's being polite I usually don't ignore them.

DG · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 12, 2005, 10:10pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Mills

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Quote:

Originally posted by scyguy
Had an IFF a few weeks ago, R1 and R2, 2B camped under it about 6 -8 feet in the outfield grass directly behind 2B. I called IFF. 2B drops ball!! Ordinary effort? Yes!! Coach says nothing but fans go crazy. They are yelling at me that IFF cannot be called when ball is in the outfield grass. Made for a "fun" four or five minutes. When inning was over, fan nicely asked me about the IFF being caught in the grass. I calmly stated the conditions for IFF and stated that the rule was designed more to protect the runners. In fact, a smart infielder could let the ball fall and double up the runners. He understood, but this old guy was still upset. He said "I seen 5000 game and never seen in called in the grass". I looked at him and said, "get a rulebook, then we can talk".

I'd tell him he doesn't watch enough baseball then.

You guys discuss rulings with fans?

If they ask nicely, I might discuss a ruling between innings.

Thom Coste · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 13, 2005, 03:32am

[/B][/QUOTE]If they ask nicely, I might discuss a ruling between innings. [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh, no! You're kidding, aren't you? You wouldn't really go to the fence to talk to a fan between innings. Say it ain't so, Joe.

Aaarghh!

Rich · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 13, 2005, 08:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by DG

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Mills

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Quote:

Originally posted by scyguy
Had an IFF a few weeks ago, R1 and R2, 2B camped under it about 6 -8 feet in the outfield grass directly behind 2B. I called IFF. 2B drops ball!! Ordinary effort? Yes!! Coach says nothing but fans go crazy. They are yelling at me that IFF cannot be called when ball is in the outfield grass. Made for a "fun" four or five minutes. When inning was over, fan nicely asked me about the IFF being caught in the grass. I calmly stated the conditions for IFF and stated that the rule was designed more to protect the runners. In fact, a smart infielder could let the ball fall and double up the runners. He understood, but this old guy was still upset. He said "I seen 5000 game and never seen in called in the grass". I looked at him and said, "get a rulebook, then we can talk".

I'd tell him he doesn't watch enough baseball then.

You guys discuss rulings with fans?

If they ask nicely, I might discuss a ruling between innings.

How does this happen if you're in short right field (base umpire) or on a foul line (plate umpire)?

scyguy · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 13, 2005, 08:53am

sure I will respond if asked in a polite manner. Common courtesy. What is wrong with that? There is enough jerks in this world without me ignoring someone who ask a question polietly.

scyguy · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 13, 2005, 08:59am

Rich,
I don't work the large parks, most fences our within 20' of the foul line. Sound has a way of traveling that far even if it isn't spoken loudly.

Hey, you have your way of doing things and I have mine. I have no problem with this.

Tim C · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 13, 2005, 09:08am

An umpire would explain a call to a FAN during a game!

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

I think I have heard everything now.

Pluuuezzze.

scyguy · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 13, 2005, 09:23am

Tim,
you are at the top of the food chain and I am a lowly bottom feeder trying to work my work up. I will learn as I gain more knowledge from you, Bob, etc.

jxt127 · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 13, 2005, 09:24am

Some of our parks in the younger ages have maybe 10 feet at the most from foul line to fence. I don't have a problem explaining something odd to the parents during a time delay. E.G. why a batter hit in the head by the pitch wasn't getting awarded 1st base. Of course 20 people at these games is a big crowd.

For the teenagers and the adults forget it I have nothing to say to the fans ever unless they are politely asking while I am changing or going back to the car after the game.

Well almost never I did call to the scorekeeper once to "get that woman's phone number" after one of the moms in her lawnchair back of the plate told me I had a cute butt lol! I think the catcher was seriously embarrassed by her mom.

[Edited by jxt127 on Apr 13th, 2005 at 10:29 AM]

cbfoulds · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 13, 2005, 09:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim C
An umpire would explain a call to a FAN during a game!

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

I think I have heard everything now.

Pluuuezzze.

Weellll.... [gulp]

I'm in a small community. Sometimes, esp. in youth ball, it seems to make sense. I once even stopped a major a$$-ragging I was getting from one of those 20-foot-from the foul line fan-gaggles in a Legion game. Convinced 'em [in under a minute

] that I was not only right, but an OK guy, too.

Do I recomend it: nope. See: if'n ya' want to be treated like a top umpire, best act like one.

Will I ever do it again? Ehhh, dunno. I got dinged on my eval for that Legion game for it; felt real stupid, 'cause I KNEW it was coming. Sometimes there is an Assn guy at the fence w/ "vital" info to share during the game [where are we meeting for the post-game beverage & gabfest?] & a fan takes the opportunity to walk over & inquire. S#!t happens.