Proper position

[Robert G]

Runner on 1st, ground ball to F6, who throws to 2nd in a attempt for DP. I am UIC, do I follow he action a few feet down the line on 3rd base side in case R1 is safe & attemps to go to 3rd, or do I position myself towards the 1st base side in case of a errant throw where I have to rule on a a dead ball situation?

[Buster Light]

You are supposed to move up the 3rd base line as you indicated and when the out has been made at second either come back down the line or cut across the field to the 1st base line for your responsibilities there. If the out is not made at second, you have the runner on second if he goes to 3rd so you stay put. In the event of an overthrow at first, chalk it up to one of the shortcomings of the 2 umpire system.

Buster

[JJ]

Don't forget you have the interference at second on a double play ball. If the throw doesn't go there, you have to be prepared to cover third (you have any runner going first-to-third on a batted ball), so it's wise to cheat that way a step or two. The price you pay in the two man system is a poor look at the overthrow at first and not being able to give much help ono a pulled-foot/swipe tag at first. You may still see them, but certainly not well, And you would be wise as the base umpire here to not ask for help on that foot pull/swipe tag. If a coach complains, he should be told "the plate man has other responsibilities with that runner going first-to-third".

[Edited by JJ on Mar 14th, 2001 at 08:43 AM]

[Thane Yennie]

Of course we could always reconsider our coverage of the two man system as Papa C has "suggested". If I can remember this correctly: R1 and a routine grounder to F6, BU is in position B. Why not let BU take the call at 2B and also watch for the interference as PU moves up the 1b line for the 2nd half of the double play. If ball is overthrown and R1 is going to advance to third BU leads him there. Depending upon how bad the fielding is PU rotates back to the plate for R1 coming home, BU rotates back to 2B for BR heading that way. I think I got those correct. Just a thought.

[PAblue87]

The base umpire cannot always call the force play slide interference because it may happen after he has turned to follow the ball to first for the DP. The plate man should go to the 1b side of the mound and look for the interference, if there is an overthrow he can easily slide into position to make the call at third, or even gat back to the plate for a play there.

[Thane Yennie]

That is exactly Carl's point: if the PU goes up the line to take the second half of the DP then the BU can stay right there and call the interference, rather than the PU calling it from 40' away. so in essence the BU is not turning with the throw to first.

[PAblue87]

I agree that this is a good mechanic, however, only if you and your partner talk about this and are both experienced enough and good enough to use this mechanic. I could see using this in my college chapter. The risky part is during the H.S. or Summer season. Even though you discuss this in pregame you will have the less experinced, LAZY, or "old School" partner who will not be in position. When working the plate, they will not get up the line, you will take a longer look at second and oops, no call at first. Or you will hustle up the line from behind the plate at bang out a runner on a close play and oops, the base ump yells safe. The mechanic makes sense, but you better be sure of it.

[Thane Yennie]

Absolutely. It is not a mechanic I would want to use with a partner that I just met in the pre-game conference.
Hopefully I could get a few bodies to work with me during the off season and perfect this particular rotation.

[wpiced]

Well, I don't know about you guys, but frankly, I can't get a clear read on BR,s status on a close play at 1B when I'm butin' up the 1B line. I go out of my way to avoid a butt shot from a runner. On the otherhand, if I am 1/3 of the way up the 3B line, even at 40 feet away, I will definitely see an interferance at 2B. As far as I know, this is the correct two man-mechanic -- why the question?

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by wpiced
Well, I don't know about you guys, but frankly, I can't get a clear read on BR,s status on a close play at 1B when I'm butin' up the 1B line. I go out of my way to avoid a butt shot from a runner. On the otherhand, if I am 1/3 of the way up the 3B line, even at 40 feet away, I will definitely see an interferance at 2B. As far as I know, this is the correct two man-mechanic -- why the question?

Marty:

Here's what Ty is talking about. The mechanic he's referring to was standard in my association for NCAA games for at least 10 years. The college committee was the first to introduce the "force play slide rule."

Our feeling was that in the early days of this "automatic double play" ruling for sliding at a runner, with or without contact, it would be sheer folly for an umpire 80 feet away to make that interference call. (You say 30 feet up the third-base line puts the umpire 40 feet from the play at second. I wasn't great in geometry, but I question those figures.)

So our mechanic leaves the field umpire exactly where he plans to call the play on R1 and keeps him focused right there. The plate umpire busts into the right side of the infield and makes the call at first.

Here's what we discovered.

On the sharp shot to F6 or F4, the batter-runner would be out a mile at first. The plate umpire, making that call from 20 feet in front of the plate, did not look unusually out of position.

On the slow roller, if there was a relay throw to first, the extra time always gave the plate umpire opportunity to get another six or eight steps closer to first.

In all the close plays the plate umpire would be as near first (and generally closer) as a field umpire is when he makes a call on the BR after beginning the play in Position C.

An additional fact:

The college coaches in the 80s loved the mechanic because they were reasonably certain the field umpire had a better chance to call the interference at second than the plate umpire. That is, they traded an "average" view of first for a "great" view of second and figured they were ahead of the game. As indeed they were. Why? A blown interference call at second is always a double play (or the lack thereof). A blown call at first may involve only one runner.

Finally:

That mechanic was used ONLY with a runner at first. That's because the plate umpire needs to favor the third-base side with a runner at second since R2 might become over-zealous at third and be subject to a throw back after the double play attempt ends at first.

BTW: We no longer use the play in NCAA since we've gone to three-man crews.

[wpiced]

Thanks, Papa C, your explanation makes sence and clears up the positioning OF UIC when a double play from 2B to 1B apears imminent.

[Thane Yennie]

Thanks for the help Carl. Did I get the mechanics relatively correct?