Yahoo or MSN Messenger

[illiniwek8]

Hello....I am wondering if anyone using yahoo or msn messenger would care to share their id to discuss issues such as in this forum. I have a few questions and would like to ask an experienced umpire who might have answers for me. I'll ask them here but thought yahoo messenger would work to if anyone uses it. illiniwek8 is my yahoo id.

1.) player catches a ball with one foot in dead ball territory.... he did not catch and then carry into dead ball territory.....is this a caught foul ball?

2.) shortstop is holding a runner on second and in a circular motion crosses in front of the bag and then in front of the runner while going back to his fielding position.....offensive coach went crazy and wanted obstruction on the shortstop....came out out to argue and made contact with base umpire...I was doing this game but told my friend who was the base umpire he should have tossed the coach when he made contact. I told him I did not think that the act of the shortstop was obstruction.

3.) I know that the UIC has responsibility to help out on illegal slide at second on a double play.....but...can the base umpire call this as well if he sees it? I was in this situation as the UIC and did not believe an illegal slide had happened. The coach went to argue with the base umpire and the base umpire I was working with told the coach it was my call. The coach then came to me inbetween innings to tell me I missed that call....I told him I did not have an illegal slide anyway.

Thanks for your input/response/answers.....illiniwek8 is my yahoo id.

[DG]

Originally posted by illiniwek8
Hello....I am wondering if anyone using yahoo or msn messenger would care to share their id to discuss issues such as in this forum. I have a few questions and would like to ask an experienced umpire who might have answers for me. I'll ask them here but thought yahoo messenger would work to if anyone uses it. illiniwek8 is my yahoo id.

1.) player catches a ball with one foot in dead ball territory.... he did not catch and then carry into dead ball territory.....is this a caught foul ball?

2.) shortstop is holding a runner on second and in a circular motion crosses in front of the bag and then in front of the runner while going back to his fielding position.....offensive coach went crazy and wanted obstruction on the shortstop....came out out to argue and made contact with base umpire...I was doing this game but told my friend who was the base umpire he should have tossed the coach when he made contact. I told him I did not think that the act of the shortstop was obstruction.

3.) I know that the UIC has responsibility to help out on illegal slide at second on a double play.....but...can the base umpire call this as well if he sees it? I was in this situation as the UIC and did not believe an illegal slide had happened. The coach went to argue with the base umpire and the base umpire I was working with told the coach it was my call. The coach then came to me inbetween innings to tell me I missed that call....I told him I did not have an illegal slide anyway.

Thanks for your input/response/answers.....illiniwek8 is my yahoo id.

1) It's a catch. Whether fair or foul depends on where the ball was when caught. I know some fields where you could catch a fair ball with one foot in dead ball territory. It would be rare, however.

2) If a play was being made on the runner whose vision of the picther was blocked by the SS, visual obstruction could be called and runner awarded 3B. Without a play being made it's nothing. Offensive coach who goes crazy, comes out to argue, and makes contact with an umpire SHALL BE INSTANTANEOUSLY TOSSED. In fact any crazy coach who RUNS onto the field to argue with me will be tossed before he gets to me.

3) The base ump can make that call if he sees it (and I have). But his attention will shift quickly to the other end of the DP, thus the need for the PU to watch his back. If coach comes out to argue with me as BU (calmly I hope, see above) I will take a moment to discuss with my partner and we will both agree to tell him that neither of us saw an illegal play. I will not tell the coach that it is the PU's call, because either of us can make that call. We are a team, and I will not pass a pi$$ed coach to a partner regardless of the reason. See Top Gun, "I am NOT leaving my wing man" .

[Edited by DG on Mar 30th, 2005 at 10:26 PM]

[UMP25]

Originally posted by DG
1) It's a catch. Whether fair or foul depends on where the ball was when caught. I know some fields where you could catch a fair ball with one foot in dead ball territory. It would be rare, however.

Not under OBR it isn't. One must have both feet in LBT in order to make a legal catch. Some amateur levels may have ground rules that treat it differently, but under OBR, it's a no catch.

[DG]

Originally posted by UMP25

Not under OBR it isn't. One must have both feet in LBT in order to make a legal catch. Some amateur levels may have ground rules that treat it differently, but under OBR, it's a no catch.

Exemption exists for dugout, where this is most likely to occur. 7.04c CMT "A fielder or catcher may reach or step into, or go into the dugout with one or both feet to make a catch, and if he holds the ball, the catch shall be allowed. Ball is in play." The point is not covered elsewhere in OBR. In 2005 BRD it says "rule as in NCAA", which would require both feet in LBT to make the catch, except if dugout is involved.

[UMP25]

It also depends on which type of dugout. Step-in ones are treated differently from ones that are surrounded by fencing/posts.

[DG]

Originally posted by UMP25
It also depends on which type of dugout. Step-in ones are treated differently from ones that are surrounded by fencing/posts.

Where does it say dugouts are treated differently?

[UMP25]

It doesn't, not in the rule book, that is. It's discussed at the plate meeting when ground rules are reviewed. Certain parks do not allow for one stepping into their dugouts due to the posts preventing such.

[largeone59]

For #1 (FED ruling) - i believe if you have one part of your body on the ground in Live ball territory, you are considered to be IN live ball territory. Your example- good catch.

[Rich]

Originally posted by DG

1) It's a catch. Whether fair or foul depends on where the ball was when caught. I know some fields where you could catch a fair ball with one foot in dead ball territory. It would be rare, however.

In FED baseball this is a catch.

In NCAA and OBR, both feet have to be in live ball territory. It's not a catch, just a foul ball.

Regarding dugouts, in FED baseball the fielder can have one foot inside a dugout to make a catch. In NCAA, the fielder cannot make a catch while in a dugout. In strict OBR, a player can make a catch in a dugout, but the Major Leagues have outlawed this entirely and many fields have a ground rule where the dugout is off limits.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

In FED baseball this is a catch.

In NCAA and OBR, both feet have to be in live ball territory. It's not a catch, just a foul ball.

Regarding dugouts, in FED baseball the fielder can have one foot inside a dugout to make a catch. In NCAA, the fielder cannot make a catch while in a dugout. In strict OBR, a player can make a catch in a dugout, but the Major Leagues have outlawed this entirely and many fields have a ground rule where the dugout is off limits.

Agreed entirely with Rich.

Also,

2) Not obstruction under any code. Eject the coach.

3) Either umpire can make the call. Generally, though, an illegal slide before the throw will be BU's call and an illegal slide after the throw will be PU's call.

4) It's better to use the board than to use IM so that we all can learn.

[UMP25]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Regarding dugouts, in FED baseball the fielder can have one foot inside a dugout to make a catch. In NCAA, the fielder cannot make a catch while in a dugout. In strict OBR, a player can make a catch in a dugout, but the Major Leagues have outlawed this entirely and many fields have a ground rule where the dugout is off limits.

I think that's what I had said, at least with respect to pro rules, but thank you for affirming my contention. I got the feeling DG didn't believe me.

[DG]

Originally posted by UMP25

I think that's what I had said, at least with respect to pro rules, but thank you for affirming my contention. I got the feeling DG didn't believe me.

I simply stated 7.05c CMT as an exemption for the dugout area, where this particular play is most likely to occur. I'm also curious how the major leagues can have a ground rule that supersedes the playing rules. But I am not a major league umpire so it does not much matter, for games under OBR that are not major league games.

[UMP25]

Well, ground rules aren't supposed to supersede book rules, but in cases such as MLB games, such ground rules are permissible. The Joint Committee on Training & Development, which also is reponsible for official rule interps., could probably tell ya more.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by illiniwek8
2.) shortstop is holding a runner on second and in a circular motion crosses in front of the bag and then in front of the runner while going back to his fielding position.....offensive coach went crazy and wanted obstruction on the shortstop

Instead of going crazy at the umpire, a smart offensive coach would instruct his runner to take off for third just as the SS is returning to his position after passing in front of the runner. The runner would make contact with the SS in the baseline and a competent umpire would call "Obstruction."

Unfortunately, most umpires are not competent and would be just as likely to throw the player out of the game for malicious contact or miss the call altogether.

Peter

[illiniwek8]

Thanks all for your insight!