Help with retouch/no retouch

[Leecedar]

Here's the situation: R1 at 1st, no out. B1 hits fly ball to F7. R1 touches 2B before ball is caught. R1 DOES NOT retouch 2B on his way back to 1B after the catch. R1 returns to 1B while throw is going from F7 to F3. F7's throw sails wildly beyond 1B, so R1 runs from 1B to 2B and arrives there safely.

Here are my questions:

On appeal, can R1 be called out for missing 2B on his way back to 1B even though he eventually retouched 2B?

or conversely,

Since R1 didn't retouch 2B until he re-advanced from 1B to 2B after the overthrow at 1B, can he be considered to have never legally retouched 1B after the catch and hence be called out at 1B on appeal?

Confusion reigns here, but fortunately, nobody made any appeal.

Lee

[DG]

Originally posted by Leecedar
Here's the situation: R1 at 1st, no out. B1 hits fly ball to F7. R1 touches 2B before ball is caught. R1 DOES NOT retouch 2B on his way back to 1B after the catch. R1 returns to 1B while throw is going from F7 to F3. F7's throw sails wildly beyond 1B, so R1 runs from 1B to 2B and arrives there safely.

Here are my questions:

On appeal, can R1 be called out for missing 2B on his way back to 1B even though he eventually retouched 2B?

or conversely,

Since R1 didn't retouch 2B until he re-advanced from 1B to 2B after the overthrow at 1B, can he be considered to have never legally retouched 1B after the catch and hence be called out at 1B on appeal?

Confusion reigns here, but fortunately, nobody made any appeal.

Lee

No and no.

[Leecedar]

Originally posted by DG

No and no. [/B]

That's it? No explanation? Gimme a little understanding here, please?

[cbfoulds]

Originally posted by Leecedar

That's it? No explanation? Gimme a little understanding here, please? [/B]

OK, it's referred to as the "last time by" principle. Presuming R didn't miss the base [returning to 1st, in this case] by a body length or more, no appeal if he legally touches the base on his last time by.

There is an article on the ABUA site which discusses this. Also items in the J/R and Carl's BRD.

[DG]

The article on ABUA is particularly good explanation.

http://www.umpire.org/modules.php?na...ticle&artid=19

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by Leecedar
Here's the situation: R1 at 1st, no out. B1 hits fly ball to F7. R1 touches 2B before ball is caught. R1 DOES NOT retouch 2B on his way back to 1B after the catch. R1 returns to 1B while throw is going from F7 to F3. F7's throw sails wildly beyond 1B, so R1 runs from 1B to 2B and arrives there safely.

Maybe I'm missing something here. If R1 touches 2nd then returns to 1st, what's that problem? The only time R1 would be subject to an appeal is if R1 headed for 3rd, then turned around, missed 2nd and went to 1st. If this were the case and the ball was not overthrown to 1st, the defense could appeal that R1 missed 2nd base.

In this senario, it seems that R1 touched 2nd then turned around and eturned to 1st. If this is correct, the there can be no appeal on R1.

[Dave Hensley]

What you missed was this statement from the original post:

"R1 DOES NOT retouch 2B on his way back to 1B after the catch."

That makes R1 subject to appeal at 2B, but the wild throw allowed R1 to advance to 2B, and due to the "last time by" principle, R1 is no longer appealable for missing 2B on his earlier return.

[officialtony]

I noticed the article referenced OBR. I did not see a reference to NFHS. Was the original post referencing OBR rules ( I did not see any reference )? Would the ruling be the same for an NFHS situation on the original post? And . . I have never heard of the " Last time by . ." could someone give me an NFHS reference in the book?

[DG]

Originally posted by officialtony
I noticed the article referenced OBR. I did not see a reference to NFHS. Was the original post referencing OBR rules ( I did not see any reference )? Would the ruling be the same for an NFHS situation on the original post? And . . I have never heard of the " Last time by . ." could someone give me an NFHS reference in the book?

There is no reference to last time by in the FED book, nor the NCAA or OBR books. It is an official interpretation.

See 2005 BRD:
FED: No provisions. Treat as in OBR
NCAA: No provisions. Treat as in OBR
OBR: There is too much to retype here, but there are several OFF INTERP, and case plays to illustrate the concept of last time by.