Fed Pitching Interp

[JJ]

Here's the play: Pitcher, in the windup position, steps on the rubber with his hands at his sides. From there, he brings both hands up simultaneously and pauses in front of his body to adjust the ball.

According to the new Fed rule interp, with runners on base this is a balk. But is there a problem/penalty if he does it with nobody on base? Illegal pitch? Dead ball? If dead, when? If not, does a preventative-officiating umpire casually tell him or the coach that what he's doing will be illegal with runners on base? If a pitcher cannot start a windup with nobody on base and stop without it being illegal, what do you do with a pitcher who starts his windup with nobody on base and stops when his hat blows off?

All of this was posed to me at a Fed rules interp meeting. Now I'm passing it along to all of you. Hey - a RULES question to generate some discussion. How refreshing!

[JJ]

Fed Rule book, page 21 (time of the pitch), Fed Case book page 15 (2.28.3 Situation C), overhead slide from the Fed Rule Interp meeting.

[Patrick Szalapski]

FED 6-1-2, 2000 rule change: "A pitcher may assume the windup position with his hands apart and then bring them together before taking his signal. After bringing his hands together, the time of the pitch would then be the moment he makes any motion with his arms or legs prior to delivering the pitch."

2.28.3(c) in the FED casebook was also changed to reflect the new rule.

In short, this is not a balk.

P-Sz

[Edited by Patrick Szalapski on Feb 10th, 2001 at 05:38 PM]

[Patrick Szalapski]

Originally posted by HOLDTHE

I suggest you read the 2001 case book. 2.28.3 situation 3.

HT

Whoa, they changed it again while I wasn't looking.

"The committee defined the “time of the pitch” in the windup position as occurring when the pitcher (a) first starts any movement of his arm(s) or leg(s) after stepping onto the pitcher’s plate with his hands already together in front of his body..."

That sucks, IMO. Oh well, I'll go back to doing their way...

P-Sz

[JJ]

Question: Why are people more than willing to ramble on about the do's and don'ts of WHY a call should or shouldn't be made, but unwilling to actually MAKE a call (for example, on the play I outlined above)? I was really hoping I could pick the collective brains here for a ruling on this play, and instead I get "Gee, I didn't know they changed the rule..."

[chris s]

Originally posted by JJ
Question: Why are people more than willing to ramble on about the do's and don'ts of WHY a call should or shouldn't be made, but unwilling to actually MAKE a call (for example, on the play I outlined above)? I was really hoping I could pick the collective brains here for a ruling on this play, and instead I get "Gee, I didn't know they changed the rule..."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~
The FED time of pitch ruling is very screwed up, actually WAS. Couple years ago I had a coach go off on me (BU) cuz kid would engage with hands apart, then bring them together and stop(just like OBR). His bitch was cuz his R3 would use the initial movement of F1's arms to get his secondary lead. I had no freaking clue(1st yaer of FED), my partner was an old deaf (hearing impaired) Smitty with 15 years of FED ball, he had no clue. I asked BobP on McGriffs about this, his response was much clearer than the book at that time.I understood the rule, not the reasoning(but thats FED).

I feel the new, redefined TOP is very clear. It could be better stated as a "commitment to pitch", thats what I believe the basis of TOP is all about. I also believe the FEDS big interest in this is that a lot of pitchers use wind-up with a R3 only, thus the R3 must have some clue as to when the F1 has committed to pitch, past the point of no return, so to speak.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by JJ
Here's the play: Pitcher, in the windup position, steps on the rubber with his hands at his sides. From there, he brings both hands up simultaneously and pauses in front of his body to adjust the ball.

According to the new Fed rule interp, with runners on base this is a balk. But is there a problem/penalty if he does it with nobody on base? Illegal pitch? Dead ball? If dead, when? If not, does a preventative-officiating umpire casually tell him or the coach that what he's doing will be illegal with runners on base? If a pitcher cannot start a windup with nobody on base and stop without it being illegal, what do you do with a pitcher who starts his windup with nobody on base and stops when his hat blows off?

All of this was posed to me at a Fed rules interp meeting. Now I'm passing it along to all of you. Hey - a RULES question to generate some discussion. How refreshing!

By rule, I think, both the bringing hands together and stopping, and the stopping when the hat falls off are balks / illegal pitches.

Now, in practice, I might have called "time" because the same gust of wind that blew off the pitcher's hat blew a speck of dust in my eye.

If the picher was "settled" on the mound, then brought his hands together (moving both at the same time), I *think* I'd call that an illegal pitch. IF it was all part of getting on the rubber, I'd let it go.

Just MHO.

[Bfair]

As was explained at the Texas State Meeing for Fed:

---both hand together & on rubber is ok

---on rubber with one hand in front and one hand down, then ok to bring single hand up and stop again OR single hand up and continue to pitch

---both hands at side and on rubber. Can bring single hand up and stop followed by other single hand up and stop and that would be ok. CANNOT start both hands up simultaneously or that would be balk.


However, it was asked how to interpret if F1 were to start his single hand upward and step off the rubber with his pivot foot simultaneously. The question posed F1's intent to simulate the start of a pitch with his arm movement yet still being allowed to step back with his pivot foot.

The answer was to consider that a balk. However, one can see that answer in not consistent with casebook by reviewing 2.28.3b which says it would be legal.

Again, interpretations conflict. I go with casebook as it is in print.

Just my opinion,

[JJ]

It's only logical that at any point during his legal hand movements the pitcher should be able to step off. Could he deceive at that point? Probably. But in Illinois we're telling coaches, "Make sure your runners know the TIME OF THE PITCH" - until THAT point the pitcher can step off and pick off!

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by JJ
Here's the play: Pitcher, in the windup position, steps on the rubber with his hands at his sides. From there, he brings both hands up simultaneously and pauses in front of his body to adjust the ball.

According to the new Fed rule interp, with runners on base this is a balk. But is there a problem/penalty if he does it with nobody on base? Illegal pitch? Dead ball? If dead, when? If not, does a preventative-officiating umpire casually tell him or the coach that what he's doing will be illegal with runners on base? If a pitcher cannot start a windup with nobody on base and stop without it being illegal, what do you do with a pitcher who starts his windup with nobody on base and stops when his hat blows off?

Here's the skinny. Back a few years ago, the FED decided that if the pitcher in intentional contact with the pitcher's plate turned his shoulders to check a runner, that would be a balk. "What if the pitcher turned his shoulders with nobody on?" That's what I asked Kyle McNeely. He said: "Uh, well, uh.... Just ignore it." Reason: They want a simplified rule: Infractions of 6-1-1, -2, -3 are either balks or llegal pitches. But they recognize that some illegal pitches are more illegal than others.

In your case your suggestion for preventive officiating is just the ticket to get you into the state tournament. "Don't do that!" you say, and call out the defensive and offensive coaches together. "Look, guys, it's a new rule. He's gotta... Blah, blah, blah."

Trust me: Everybody will love you, and the pitchers on those teams will learn at once how to address the batter without balking or "illegally" [sic] pitching.

[JJ]

Carl,
I did my 3 trips to the state tournament ten years ago, partly because I did (and still do, whenever possible) just what you suggested - preventive officiating. Many times an umpire can do this without putting anyone at a disadvantage, and everyone looks good. Of course, the higher the level of ball one does, the less preventive officiating can be done, because players are technically better, and coaches like to exploit the shortfalls of the other team. At higher levels who am I to make their jobs harder? I still do preventive officiating at the college level. Some of it is mandated (throwing out illegal bats in the pregame inspection), and some is not ("go tell your pitcher if he throws at this guy he's done..."). I am a proponent of heading off problems before they become problems - not ignoring something and hoping it goes away. The trick is knowing what to do and when to do it - and we both know that is where experience is the best teacher!