Facial Hair

[DG]

[/B][/QUOTE]

So if someone told you to loss 10-15 pounds, would that be kissing up if you did it?

If an assignor tells you to do something in order to work for them, you do it if you want to work that conference, level or whatever game they might have for you. I know if I want a job and they say to do something in order for me to get hired, I will do that if I want that job bad enough.

Peace [/B][/QUOTE]

Sure it would, if you were doing it only to get some reward from the person who told you to do it. If your doctor told you to, then you are gettin the reward, not the doctor. Everyone has priorities and if getting an assignment is higher than having a beard then you will do what you got to do.

[JJ]

Originally posted by DG

If your doctor told you to, then you are gettin the reward, not the doctor. . [/B][/QUOTE]

Hmmm...my doctor gets my money. That's his reward. I get more physically fit. That's my reward. I shave my beard, I get games. That's my reward. My assignor gets his job done (filling a schedule). That's his reward. Win-win. It all boils down to one's definition of "reward". I don't look at getting games as a "reward". I look at it as getting an opportunity to use my job skills. Much like getting a job in the real world - and if I do well, I get a promotion. Bigger cubicle. Higher level games. More opportunity. Or do you say reward?

[DG]

I simply defined kissing up, I made no value judgement. If you want to shave your beard because your boss says it's necessary to get a larger cubicle that's your business. I know I have accepted medical advice from a doctor with a beard in my time.

[Edited by DG on Nov 24th, 2004 at 10:58 PM]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by DG


Sure it would, if you were doing it only to get some reward from the person who told you to do it. If your doctor told you to, then you are gettin the reward, not the doctor. Everyone has priorities and if getting an assignment is higher than having a beard then you will do what you got to do.

I got into officiating to work. I did not get into officating to sit at home and not work. I guess if I want to work, I need to do a lot of things that is asked of me. Like buy a certain uniform. Like show up at a specific time before the game. Or wear facial hair or not wear facial hair. It matters in basketball a lot. It does not matter in baseball that much for some reason. If I work a D1 basketball game, I have a chance of making over $1000 plus expenses as compared to $52 for that HS game or $125 for a JUCO or D3 game. I do not know about you, but I would shave off the beard to make $900+ to work the same time I would for a HS or lower level college game. If you call that kissing up, I guess you have a right to that opinion. I call it doing what it takes to work games, which is why I started officiating in the first place.

Peace

[Peruvian]

I have had a stache/goat for many years now, and it hasn't prevented me from calling big games or playoff FED ball, or Legion. That being said, in the past we've heard rumblings from the state that "X doesn't like facial hair, so if you have it, forget about him assigning you to a final." However, all that we ask our local association to do is to make sure they are trim and neat when they work - beard or no beard.

Full beards are discouraged, but not a deterent to get you assignments. I keep my goat short and neat, and it has never been a problem.

[Bob Lyle]

Originally posted by Peruvian


Full beards are discouraged, but not a deterent to get you assignments. I keep my goat short and neat, and it has never been a problem.

With all due respect, how would you know if you were being denied assignments because of facial hair? Many assignors aren't going to admit to a bias. As a member of a minority group, I'm sure that I've been discriminated against, but I never can prove it. It's always too subtle and the person can always come up with other reasons for his actions.

You said it yourself, "Full beards are discouraged." If they are discouraged, you can bet that someone is acting on that bias. Just because you aren't aware of it, doesn't mean that no one is acting on that bias.

[Strike3UROUT]

My beard is neat and trimmed and I've had it for over 20 years so I'm not shaving. If you can do a consistent job and can show respect for your profession I would think worrying about a beard with be the least of their concerns. If not then more power to them!!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Strike3UROUT
My beard is neat and trimmed and I've had it for over 20 years so I'm not shaving. If you can do a consistent job and can show respect for your profession I would think worrying about a beard with be the least of their concerns. If not then more power to them!!

As I stated earlier, my comments and this discussion was not about baseball. I have seen many people wear facial hair in baseball (white umpires to be specific) and almost never see anyone other than African-Americans wear a mustache in football and basketball ranks.

Danny Crawford (African-American) of the NBA spoke at the IHSA Convention this past summer. He said that it was hard for him to get rid of his beard (or goatee) when he was moving up. It was clear he was not going to work that level if he did not do so. Well he obviously does not have a beard anymore, he just has a mustache.

Appearance on your face is not much different than what your body type looks like. It is clear that the NBA for example is not hiring officials that have beer bellies. Even if you look at the NFL or many D1 Football conferences, they are not hiring guys that are excessively overweight. They might hire someone that is naturally big, but that is about as far as it goes. I do not know that I would care if someone were to offer me a 6 figure income to officiate a sport and keeping facial hair just for principled reasons.

Peace

[Peruvian]

Originally posted by Bob Lyle

You said it yourself, "Full beards are discouraged." If they are discouraged, you can bet that someone is acting on that bias. Just because you aren't aware of it, doesn't mean that no one is acting on that bias.

I know there is not a bias because I am on the board, which approves the assignments. The main reason we discourage full beards is because the state guy, who assigns the state semifinals and finals, does. As a local association, we really don't care, as long as it is neat and trimmed.

[Edited by Peruvian on Nov 29th, 2004 at 07:16 PM]

[DG]

Like I said earlier, "everyone has priorities and if getting an assignment is higher than having a beard then you will do what you got to do." If I had a beard for 20 years and liked it I would not shave it to get an assignment. For a six figure salary I might shave my whole body if I were unemployed or if that amount was significantly more than I was making already. My priorities would change, and yes, I would be kissing up to do it.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by DG
Like I said earlier, "everyone has priorities and if getting an assignment is higher than having a beard then you will do what you got to do." If I had a beard for 20 years and liked it I would not shave it to get an assignment. For a six figure salary I might shave my whole body if I were unemployed or if that amount was significantly more than I was making already. My priorities would change, and yes, I would be kissing up to do it.

I guess everything to you is about kissing up if you want to live up to standards set by a profession or hobby in which you would like to accomplish things. So I guess wearing the proper uniform is kissing up too, if you liked the old powder blue and decided that was what you wanted to wear?

Peace

[PWL]

Originally Posted by Tim C

First an exact answer:

I have worked college baseball in five states, in seven groups ranging from NAIA to D1. NONE of those conferences or assigning groups allow beards. Neatly trimmed mustache yes, beards no.

HOWEVER,

Garth B, who posts here regularly, has a beard (I remember a rat comment to him once, "eat a $hit sandwhich Santa Claus")and works pretty high college ball in his area.

Tee

Maybe he doesn't like bread or he would. The good ole' days