throwing bat at ball

malasto · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 30, 2004, 11:51am

I am new to this-but here it goes anyway. I cannot find this in any rule book: Suicide squeeze..batter throws bat at ball and makes contact. Is this legal?

Rich Ives · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 30, 2004, 12:44pm

Yes.

Atl Blue · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 30, 2004, 12:44pm

If done to hit the ball, yes. If done to interfere with the catcher, no.

scyguy · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 30, 2004, 03:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Atl Blue
If done to hit the ball, yes. If done to interfere with the catcher, no.

Give me a scenario where it would be interference. If he throws bat, makes contact, what are you looking for to determine interference in relationship to the ball hitting the bat?

Atl Blue · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 30, 2004, 07:59pm

Pitchout. Batter throws the bat, but does not hit the ball until it is past the batter, and as the bat hits the ball, it also hits the catcher. The bat was clearly thrown to get in the catcher's face, and hit the ball almost by accident.

Admittedly, if the batter is trying to interfere with the catcher rather than hit the ball, the chance of him actually making contact with the ball is almost zero. But I got a ruling from the WUA regarding the general issue of the batter throwing the bat (without the contact part). The rule for MLB umps is if the bat is thrown to attempt to hit the ball, legal. If it is thrown to interfere with the catcher, illegal. Obviously, the intent is the judgment of the umpire.

tornado · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 01, 2004, 03:32am

Your call:

B1 is left-handed. R3. Suicide squeeze is on, and F1 throws a pitch out. B1 throws bat at the ball. F2 steps out to get ball, knocks bat down with right hand, and catches the ball with his glove & tags out the runner.....

Been Dare · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 01, 2004, 05:58am

If I'm visualizing the play happen, as you describe it, and based on (my) umpire judgement: I've probably got catcher's interference/obstruction (you say tomato). Dead ball; B1 is awarded 1B, and R3 is returned to 3B.

I stand ready to be set straight, if this is wrong.

Atl Blue · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 01, 2004, 08:06am

B1 is left-handed. R3. Suicide squeeze is on, and F1 throws a pitch out. B1 throws bat at the ball. F2 steps out to get ball, knocks bat down with right hand, and catches the ball with his glove & tags out the runner.....

Well, the answer is, it all depends.

Where was the catcher when he caught the ball? Did he remain behind the back tip of the plate? If so, this is interference by the batter, because if the bat hit the catcher behind HP, it must have been thrown at the catcher, not at the ball. R3 out, unless there were two outs, then batter is out.

If the catcher stepped up past the back tip of the plate, you have catcher's interference. This is a delayed dead ball. Since the ball was not hit, kill the play, award the batter first, and award any runners that were going on the pitch the next base. In other words, score the run.

UNLESS, the batter stepped across the plate or stepped out of the box while throwing his bat out there. If so, we are back to interference on the batter.

The benefit of the doubt here, on my field, goes to the catcher. As long as he remained behind the back of the plate when getting the pitch, I have to believe that the batter was throwing the bat at the catcher, not at the pitch. INT on the batter, call the runner out (unless there were two outs).

bob jenkins · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 01, 2004, 08:33am

Quote:

Originally posted by Been Dare
If I'm visualizing the play happen, as you describe it, and based on (my) umpire judgement: I've probably got catcher's interference/obstruction (you say tomato). Dead ball; B1 is awarded 1B, and R3 is returned to 3B.

I stand ready to be set straight, if this is wrong.

Given the call of CI, then R3 would score on the award.

scyguy · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 01, 2004, 10:39am

Atl, if the batter makes contact with the ball when his foot is outside the box or on the plate, we have a dead ball, batter out. If R3 is stealing home, we have to send him back to third.

If batter throws bat at ball and makes contact and his foot was outside or in contact with plate when bat LEFT HIS HAND, then we have a dead ball out on batter, runner back to third.

Does the above action supercede calling batter interference? I guess what I am asking is, for the above infraction, will we call out the batter or the runner if we have less than 2 outs.

Atl Blue · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 01, 2004, 10:51am

Atl, if the batter makes contact with the ball when his foot is outside the box or on the plate, we have a dead ball, batter out. If R3 is stealing home, we have to send him back to third.

Correct, if he was attempting to hit the pitch. If he was not attempting to hit the pitch but trying to interfere with the catcher, it's still INT, and the runner is out, assuming less than 2 outs.

If batter throws bat at ball and makes contact and his foot was outside or in contact with plate when bat LEFT HIS HAND, then we have a dead ball out on batter, runner back to third.

While I am not saying you are wrong (I have not researched this), I don't know that this is right either. What do you have to back up the "when it left his hand" part of the statement? The rule says if the batter makes contact with the ball while his foot is on the ground completely outside the batter's box he is out. It says nothing about "when the bat left his hand". If you have supporting evidence for this, let me know, I love to learn.

I believe that hitting the ball while out of the box would take precedence IF it occurred while the batter was making an attempt to hit the ball (i.e., over or in front of the plate) as it would occur before any possible INT. But again, if the batter is NOT making an attempt to hit the ball, but is throwing the bat at the catcher (i.e., behind the plate), contact or not, that's INT, and with less than two outs, the runner is out.

scyguy · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 01, 2004, 11:02am

my point about left his hand is this, if he tosses bat before his foot is outside box versus tosses bat when foot is outside box, we have two seperate rulings. I am thinking, if he tosses bat, how do I determine if he is outside box? Do I look for his foot outside when tossed bat makes contact with ball or when it left his hand?

Atl Blue · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 01, 2004, 01:22pm

my point about left his hand is this, if he tosses bat before his foot is outside box versus tosses bat when foot is outside box, we have two seperate rulings.

WHY do you think they are separate rulings? What does WHEN he tosses the bat have to do with it? The rule says the batter is out if he makes contact with the ball while his foot is on the ground outside the box. He doesn't make contact when he throws the bat, he makes contact when the bat hits the ball.

scyguy · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 01, 2004, 02:36pm

we have two separate rulings whether his foot is inside or outside box when contact is made. My confusion is whether or not leaving the hands to CREATE the contact is the same as having bat in your hands when contact is made.

For example,
RH Batter squares to bunt, right foot is on plate or out of box. Pitch is outside, he tosses his bat at the ball and makes contact. Ruling? It would seem to me that the batter is out for making contact with the ball while his foot is on the plate.