Question about college coaches

[gordon30307]

I have a friend whose son is a pitcher in a Division 1 program. He is of the opinion that most college coaches abuse their pitchers. ie. excessively high pitch counts etc. Those of you who do this level do you find this to be the case? Just wondering.

[cowbyfan1]

In my limited experience, I would say no. The games I did were summer ball tho and obviously not as critical. One game we had a 1-0 ball game and they used about 5 pitchers combined.

[Been Dare]

...I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Legendary University of Texas baseball coach Cliff Gustafson(sp) worked the hell out of his pitchers. Shane Reynolds and Roger Clemens are 2 examples that come to mind.
Obviously, it didn't hamper Roger's career in the least, but I do recall Shane Reynolds commenting on his college ball workload, once when he was with the Astros, and it didn't seem to fill him with warm fuzzies towards his ex-coach.

[Gee]

I'm pretty sure that Clemens had surgery on his pitching arm after he left UT and before joining the Red Sox.

[WindyCityBlue]

Depending on where you work and the quality of the program, you will see more pitchers go down prior to the season than during. The off season workouts at most of the better programs are designed to take good arms and make them great. The luxury of scholarship baseball is the ability to have more than a few good arms. The coaches I see, ALL have set-up men and closers. Just like the bigs, the starter goes out to get the job done, but rarely goes the distance. I have seen only a few starters finish in the last few years. Most of the good programs recognize the importance of their rotation and rest. By and large, the injuries I'm aware of happen on off days or during training. A lot of casual fans don't know what these guys do on their "off days". In the Midwest, where weather wreaks havoc on early season scheduling, a kid may have seven or eight days between starts. If you ask around, You'll probably find that the pitch count has little to do with fatigue. Throwing 50 dueces, 20 sliders and 50 fastballs to guys with composite bats, takes a toll. Learning to throw a change up can help, but I always laugh at the kid that thinks he can rip it by any batter. That 90mph fastball on the outer edge just goes farther when the batter has guns the size of my thigh and is swinging a metal bat the size of a tree trunk.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

As the father of two sons (11 and 14) both of whom play first base. I am going to make an observation that might seem odd.

While no player should be abused (and I do not mean in the child abuse way) since when do college (fill in sport here) sports exist to produce players for professional teams? For that matter, since when do high school (fill in sport here) sports exist to produce players for college and professional teams.

I am of the firm belief that a student attends college because he/she wants to get a college education and that college sports is an extracurricular activity of the educational process.

One can demonize the coach for abusing his players, if he really is abusing them, but the coach should not be demonized because he used his players in such a many that the team acheived as much success as possible with the talent that it possessed.

I think that part of the problem is that college and unversity presidents have forgotten to take control of their athletic departments and the tail is wagging the dog and not the other way around.

Just a obervation made through rose colored glasses.'

MTD, Sr.

[Atl Blue]

I am of the firm belief that a student attends college because he/she wants to get a college education and that college sports is an extracurricular activity of the educational process.

Well, if your kids are in an Ivy League school, or a D2 or D3 program, MAYBE.

But major conference D1? You're right, your rose colored glasses are fogging up with the tears of remembering days of bygone eras.

In D1, if you play a sport, you have a JOB. A job that requires MANY hours of commitment.

[David B]

Originally posted by gordon30307
I have a friend whose son is a pitcher in a Division 1 program. He is of the opinion that most college coaches abuse their pitchers. ie. excessively high pitch counts etc. Those of you who do this level do you find this to be the case? Just wondering.

From what I've seen it really does depend on the coach.

Most of the coaches that I have delt with knew their players. And most of them that I've seen know that if they are going to be in the playoffs, or the post season etc., they have to have the pitching.

So most of them plan accordingly. Now they may pitch them a little more as the season goes on, but most of them will start them slow and then build them up as the season goes on.

In our four local colleges and junior colleges I think all of the coaches do a very good job with their pitchers.
But, three of the four are in the post season year after year and they know the ropes.

I'm sure there is a lot of abuse in other areas simply because I hear of kids that were great pitchers in HS and I see them now and they are in rehab etc., for their arms.

Thanks
David

[Atl Blue]

I used to work for the Georgia Tech baseball team. In MANY early season games (and our season started in early February each year), the coach would use the following NCAA rule which allowed him to declare before the game started that he would use at least three pitchers, which allowed the scorer (me) to waive the "starting pitcher must go five innings to get the win" rule:

10-25-b-2: By prearrangement, if three or more pitchers are to be used, the pitcher of record shall be considered the winning pitcher.

I worked there six years. Of course there were times I thought a given pitcher was left in too long, but I never saw "abuse" of pitchers. They were too valuable of a commodity to risk for any one game.

[cowbyfan1]

Same thing you need to realize, while coaches are looking for kids that will help them win that championship, they will, eventually, not get those better kids if the coach gets a rep for blowing out arms to get that championship.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

While no player should be abused (and I do not mean in the child abuse way) since when do college (fill in sport here) sports exist to produce players for professional teams? For that matter, since when do high school (fill in sport here) sports exist to produce players for college and professional teams.

I am of the firm belief that a student attends college because he/she wants to get a college education and that college sports is an extracurricular activity of the educational process.

One can demonize the coach for abusing his players, if he really is abusing them, but the coach should not be demonized because he used his players in such a many that the team acheived as much success as possible with the talent that it possessed.

I think that part of the problem is that college and unversity presidents have forgotten to take control of their athletic departments and the tail is wagging the dog and not the other way around.

Just a obervation made through rose colored glasses.'

MTD, Sr.

Mark,

Lets clear some of the colored tint away from your glasses.

I had a son that played 4 yrs of hs varity and 2 years of D1 College ball. If you think that MONEY is not the driving force for College athletics then your living in a different world. He completed he education in Engineering however it was implied several times to him that his sport should have been more important than his possible career in engineering.

It's ALL about TV money , donations and big income to the schools, necessary to run their programs and yes, very helpful to run the schools. Why do you think there is such a big problem with coming up with a National Championship for College Football.? It is NOT getting the teams to play, as much as how much the college and many, many others will make on the game.

Don't be a realist like myself, it has little to do with sport and competition. It is a Big Business and thats the way it is.

I say that they should actually just have Unversities that just offer Sports. A BA in Football , Baseball, etc. Quit hiding behind the fallacy that these athletes are truely getting educated. But this is America, and no one has ever said that I know it all either.

[mbyron]

I work in post-secondary education, and I think that most college athletes in big-time programs are done a disservice by their universities. Generally they are not educated, they are moved through a system of remedial (or worse) classes, and sometimes they graduate. But, to echo some of the other posters, it is all about the money.

I would like to see athletes at these programs (and it's only some programs -- college athletics runs the gamut from sheer professional to quite amateur) treated as employees of their respective universities. They should be paid and given benefits, including the option to attend the university at no cost (if they can get in). This would treat these professional athletes as they deserve to be treated -- as professionals -- and yet give them the opportunity to educate themselves to whatever level they can attain.

Sorry to divert the thread. I'll get off my high horse now.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by jicecone

Mark,

Lets clear some of the colored tint away from your glasses.

I had a son that played 4 yrs of hs varity and 2 years of D1 College ball. If you think that MONEY is not the driving force for College athletics then your living in a different world. He completed he education in Engineering however it was implied several times to him that his sport should have been more important than his possible career in engineering.

It's ALL about TV money , donations and big income to the schools, necessary to run their programs and yes, very helpful to run the schools. Why do you think there is such a big problem with coming up with a National Championship for College Football.? It is NOT getting the teams to play, as much as how much the college and many, many others will make on the game.

Don't be a realist like myself, it has little to do with sport and competition. It is a Big Business and thats the way it is.

I say that they should actually just have Unversities that just offer Sports. A BA in Football , Baseball, etc. Quit hiding behind the fallacy that these athletes are truely getting educated. But this is America, and no one has ever said that I know it all either.

I do not disagree with you one bit, in fact you are preaching to the choir as to how it really is in the real world. As an engineer I hope that your son followed through on his career goal of becoming an engineer. Money is the driving force in both college and many high powered H.S. athletic programs. The real purpose of college and H.S. is being forgotten.

I guess I was just doing from wishful thinking and my wife and I can only educate our sons to the fact that we play sports and one cannot play a good many of the all of their lives and the most important thing that a person can achieve is a good education.

MTD, Sr.