Little League WS: WA v MD

[Carl Childress]

The plate umpire in Washington/Maryland is clearly the best I've seen. (5 games)

But....

Sometimes I hear his voice just (barely) before I hear the pop of the ball in the catcher's mitt. It doesn't LOOK like he's rushing that much though compared to some (me) he's Speedy Gonzalez.

Anybody else see/hear that?

Anybody agree he's one of the better ones?

Two other points:

Earlier today I saw a ball hit on a line drive to center field. The ball was caught, but the camera also caught something, the second base umpire heading for the infield without even turning to make the out/safe call in right center. Is that LL mechanics? If he's supposed to come in, why was he so deep? Is the umpire on the right-field line supposed to make that call?

I thought he was so certain the ball would fall in that he wanted to be at second for a possible play. If that's blown mechanics, a very fine play by F8 made him look bad.

An inning or so ago in WA/MD, a ball was hit just down the line fair and went into the right-field corner. The camera caught the right-field line umpire hustling toward -- first base. Shouldn't he be watching the player and the ball in the corner?

[Edited by Carl Childress on Aug 22nd, 2004 at 10:24 PM]

[Atl Blue]

LL clinicians teach that all fly balls in the outfield in a 6 umpire system are handled by RFU and LFU.

On another board, when this mechanic was questioned during the regionals, one of the regional umps said that is what they were taught to use during the Regional Tournament, and I assume the same thing is being taugh to the guys in Williamsport.

To me, it seems a little crazy. On a 60' diamond, U2 in the outfield is close enough to F8 to pat him on the back after the catch. I don't understand having him run AWAY from the sinking liner, just to have it covered by someone at least 60' away.

But LL clinincs also teach that in a 2, 3 or 4 man system, the PU has ALL fly balls in the outfield. Back when I still worked LL, I did 4 state championships. On my crews, fly balls to the outfield were handled the same way they are handled on the 90' diamond.

But maybe that's just ONE reason I was never asked to come to Williamsport.

And before anyone makes comments about LL umps not being real umps, I was working NCAA baseball and LL baseball in the same seasons. LL can be fun, the kids are great, but the adults drove me out. It's not the game, it's the politics, the griping, the manipulating, the coaches that think they are Lou Pinella when in reality they are more like Lou Costello.

If the adults were kept away from the field, I'd go back.

[gotblue?]

At our state level, six man crew, the mechanic used was that, with no runners on, or with only R3, the 2nd base umpire would stay (go) out to call catch or no catch on balls hit to CF or the RF and LF alleys (U3 rotating to 2B, LFU coming in to 3B). In all other situations, U2 would come into the infield, leaving the RF and LF line umpires to call the catch.

At the risk of opening a new can of worms (my perception being that this is not generally a LL board), any comments on the effectiveness of using a 6 man crew on a 60' diamond?

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by gotblue?
At our state level, six man crew, the mechanic used was that, with no runners on, or with only R3, the 2nd base umpire would stay (go) out to call catch or no catch on balls hit to CF or the RF and LF alleys (U3 rotating to 2B, LFU coming in to 3B). In all other situations, U2 would come into the infield, leaving the RF and LF line umpires to call the catch.

At the risk of opening a new can of worms (my perception being that this is not generally a LL board), any comments on the effectiveness of using a 6 man crew on a 60' diamond?

Why not use six? Why not use seven and an umpire will be in the outfield for the once-in-a-million trap that needs an umpire on the spot. (grin)

Of course, I also notice that in every game I've seen both umpires on the line signal fair/foul. What if the umpires disagree? That happened a few years ago, and LL UIC Andy Konyar pointed the wrong direction. He said "Foul!" and pointed fair -- or vice versa.

Shouldn't the mechanics be:

1. Any ball that does not break the plane of the base is the responsibility of the plate umpire. (I heard some of the PUs calling "Foul!" on smashes down the line.)

2. Any ball that (1) hits the base, (2) hits in fair ground in front of the base and passes over the base, or (3) hits in fair ground between the base and the position of the base umpire is the responsibility of the base umpire (U1/U3).

3. Any ball that first hits fair or foul beyond the base umpire is the responsibility of the line umpire.

If it ain't your call, don't do nothin'!

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by Carl Childress
The plate umpire in Washington/Maryland is clearly the best I've seen. (5 games)

But....

Sometimes I hear his voice just (barely) before I hear the pop of the ball in the catcher's mitt.

I thought he did a good job. But are you sure you were hearing the plate umpire? I thought I was hearing him all night long too -- just barely as you note -- except about the 5th inning I realized it wasn't the PU but the third base coach. He was calling all sorts of stuff over there -- fair/foul, ball/strike, etc. I thought all along it was the plate umpire.

[cowbyfan1]

I have only caugth bits and pieces of games.

I think the biggest problem I had was in a game with the Iowa team (I think). Last inning, right handed batter swung and missed. Catcher missed the ball and it hit off the umpires wrist. Runner advanced to second. Plate ump said it was a swing and miss but the 3B blue came down and said it was a foul ball. I have a problem with that as, other than the blue on the left field line, he has the poorest angle to see that. Replay showed it was a swing and miss. If 3b blue had a foul ball then he should have killed it immediately (he didn't).

[Been Dare]

From what I've sseen so far, too many of these guys, calling the lines, are getting way too close to fielders making plays on the ball. There might be something said for having an umpire on the spot, but not when he's right in front of a fielder that makes a good catch, and then has to double pump on his throw back in, because the umpire is right in his way. Why do they seem to think they have to get so close? Who knows, but I've already seen enough to know they're not adding much value to the games.

QUOTE rfom Cowboy:I think the biggest problem I had was in a game with the Iowa team (I think). Last inning, right handed batter swung and missed. Catcher missed the ball and it hit off the umpires wrist. Runner advanced to second. Plate ump said it was a swing and miss but the 3B blue came down and said it was a foul ball. I have a problem with that as, other than the blue on the left field line, he has the poorest angle to see that. Replay showed it was a swing and miss. If 3b blue had a foul ball then he should have killed it immediately (he didn't)."

I think you're wrong here cowboy. BU3 only came in after PU was asked by defensive manager to check on a possible foul ball, which I also thought it was not, and replays verified.
When BU3 came in, PU said "it hit me on my wrist, it must've been foul." (Yeah, that makes a lot of sense...NOT) I think BU3 just went along with him, since he couldn't have possibly seen or heard it. Earlier in the game PU had asked BU3 about another foul ball, which should've been easy for PU to call on his own. This PU was definitely the worst I've seen so far at this year's LLWS. He was BU2 last night, and his calls on the bases were just as fast as his calls behind the plate, which means he was calling them before they happened. I was hoping he'd get bitten by the old "out-safe" call. I'm sure he's had that experience plenty of times in his career, based on what I've seen from him so far.
Prediction: that dude will screw the pooch (and some team)big time, before the tournament is over with.

[David B]

Originally posted by Carl Childress

Why not use six? Why not use seven and an umpire will be in the outfield for the once-in-a-million trap that needs an umpire on the spot. (grin)

Of course, I also notice that in every game I've seen both umpires on the line signal fair/foul. What if the umpires disagree? That happened a few years ago, and LL UIC Andy Konyar pointed the wrong direction. He said "Foul!" and pointed fair -- or vice versa.

Shouldn't the mechanics be:

1. Any ball that does not break the plane of the base is the responsibility of the plate umpire. (I heard some of the PUs calling "Foul!" on smashes down the line.)

2. Any ball that (1) hits the base, (2) hits in fair ground in front of the base and passes over the base, or (3) hits in fair ground between the base and the position of the base umpire is the responsibility of the base umpire (U1/U3).

3. Any ball that first hits fair or foul beyond the base umpire is the responsibility of the line umpire.

If it ain't your call, don't do nothin'!

Umpires are running all over the place looks like a circus.

I'm with AB, I love to call the kids games, but the adults made me move up the ladder. Too much politics and too many coaches kids who can't play.

But, the BU can call the steal from behind the runner at 2B, but he can't call a play at second from the same spot?

I would want the closest umpire to call a sinking liner to F8 or in the gap and not a guy on the line with the ball going away from him.

But, when I was calling "small ball" we used pretty much the same mechanics as 90'. Just made it easier for most of us who called the HS and up most of the time.

Thanks
DAvid

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Didn't see the game. Not certain of LL mechanics.

But the best location to determine whether a ball bounces into the fielder's mit is not with the ball coming over your head (in the same line/plane as the flight of the ball) BUT FROM A LOCATION PERPENDICULAR TO THE FLIGHT OF THE BALL.

With no one on, the NFHS Mechanics manual stipulates for three-man the U2 (moving from behind first) should "call catch/no catch on fly balls to center field on which the center fielder moves to his left or STRAIGHT BACK ..."

and that U3 (moving from behind third) should "call catch/no catch on fly balls to center field on which the center fielder moves to his right or comes STRAIGHT IN ..."

Perhaps this is similar to what the LL guys were doing...???

This straightlining is why it is difficult for the PU to judge a bounce to an infielder. The path of the ball may only vary an inch or two after the bounce 100 feet away, and not be perceptible to the PU. Whereas, an umpire perpendicular to the ball's flight can more readily see the bounce and tell that, although the ball may have only came up an inch, it bounced two feet before hitting the fielder's glove.

Position!