Overthrow on Pick-Off

[Baseball_North]

Anyone watching the Yankees/Red Sox game? With Damon on first, Contreras threw over to first and it went into the stands. The umpire only awarded Damon 2nd base. Francona came out to question the call, and I thought that he should be on third base. I thought he stepped off before throwing.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Baseball_North
Anyone watching the Yankees/Red Sox game? With Damon on first, Contreras threw over to first and it went into the stands. The umpire only awarded Damon 2nd base. Francona came out to question the call, and I thought that he should be on third base. I thought he stepped off before throwing.

Nope. Jab step with pivot foot. Proper award.

[Tim C]

and Mike Winters nailed it . . . it was clearly a jab step which means in contact with the pitcher's plate.

Tee

[Kaliix]

R3 and R1, pitcher tries to fake to third then throw to first and he F1 sends the ball into dead ball territory.

I put R1 on third and coach argues he should be on second. I told him the pither disengaged the rubber and the award is two bases. He protests the game and loses (within 5 minutes because it's a state tournament game).

I went to the rule book on the scorers table after the game. The coach comes up to me and asks if I found the rule. I read it to him since he asks and doesn't have his glasses. I finish and he looks at me and goes, "Well, I guess I was wrong."

Me

[DG]

It is practically impossible to fake to 3b, turn and throw to 1b without disengaging from the rubber.

[Rich]

Originally posted by DG
It is practically impossible to fake to 3b, turn and throw to 1b without disengaging from the rubber.

Disengage doesn't mean "foot comes off of." Disengage has a specific meaning when it comes to pitching rules.

And in OBR/NCAA, it is a balk to fake to third and throw to first without disengaging legally.

[Rich]

Originally posted by DG
Excuse me. "It is practically impossible to fake to 3b, turn and throw to 1b without pivot foot coming off the rubber". I don't think I have ever seen a pitcher make the 3rd to 1st move without his pivot foot losing contact with the rubber. "Pitcher steps directly toward third base and then comes off the rubber and whirls around and throws to first base, not a balk".

Look at the Jim Evans balk video. There such a move is demonstrated. The pitcher steps to third, pivots on his pivot foot without disengaging and throws to first. Balk.

[DG]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Look at the Jim Evans balk video. There such a move is demonstrated. The pitcher steps to third, pivots on his pivot foot without disengaging and throws to first. Balk.

This move is indeed covered in Jim's video, but I have never seen this move in a game and it would be a "highly technical balk" if called.

[Rich]

Originally posted by DG

This move is indeed covered in Jim's video, but I have never seen this move in a game and it would be a "highly technical balk" if called.

No, it wouldn't. Everyone at the upper levels knows that F1 must disengage when making the 3-1 move.

[DG]

Have you ever seen a pitcher use this move at the "upper" level? I don't even remember the last time I saw a 3rd to 1st move at the "upper" level.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by DG
Have you ever seen a pitcher use this move at the "upper" level? I don't even remember the last time I saw a 3rd to 1st move at the "upper" level.

I see it on MLB every once and a while.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by DG
Have you ever seen a pitcher use this move at the "upper" level? I don't even remember the last time I saw a 3rd to 1st move at the "upper" level.

Depends on what you mean by "upper level". I've seen this move in games that I've worked at the varsity, and college levels. As a spectator, I've seen it in the Minor Leagues and MLB.

I've seen the balk called in Senior Legion Ball and in a Minor League game. But what do they know, eh? They probably weren't told to not call this "highly technical" balk at pro-school.

[ozzy6900]

Rich Fronheiser wrote:

No, it wouldn't. Everyone at the upper levels knows that F1 must disengage when making the 3-1 move.

It is allowed in FED (although I've never seen it).
It is a balk in NCAA & OBR.

[Rich]

Originally posted by DG
Have you ever seen a pitcher use this move at the "upper" level? I don't even remember the last time I saw a 3rd to 1st move at the "upper" level.

I work college baseball. I see it all the time. It even worked once this season.

It generally doesn't fool anyone. Once I see the step to third, I start pivoting to make the call at first base (from the B position).

The purpose of the move isn't to get an out -- it's to see if the batter is bunting or R1 tips that he is going to be running.

[mrm21711]

We saw the move in a 12 year old game, but this was an "elite" 12 year old league, they played like they were 16. The pitcher faked to third and did not disengage his pivot foot from the rubber, he just basically kept it in the same spot while rotating.