Is a swing a strike?

[Shmuelg]

This was actually in a men's fastpitch, although this works with baseball as well. That's why I am asking it here.

Count is 1 and 2, no outs, no one on base.

Pitcher throws a helium-ball (very very high), impossible to hit or catch, and it goes to the backstop. Batter, being shrewd, swings when he sees this. He didn't "aim" at the ball, it was obvious that he was swinging to get the "dropped third strike" situation. He then runs to first, and gets there safely. PU (I was FU) says it's a ball, and calls the batter back. Batter doesn't like this, and says he swung. Defense does NOT appeal the call, btw. I supported the PU, based on the understanding of the rules that a strike is to be called when the "batter strikes at the ball", and he didn't strike AT THE BALL. That's why it's called strike, Maude.

OK, what do you guys say to this? Good call? Bad call?

Shmuel

[johnSandlin]

In my opinion, I believe the wrong call was made here. Even though the pitch was high and unhitable (in your opinion), the batter made a legal attempted swinging effort at the ball.

The ball was not caught cleanly by the catcher, making this a dropped third strike, live ball, and legal for the batter to run and attempt to gain first base.

The batter should have been left on first base, and the play should have been allowed to stand with the outcome that it had.

[Rich Ives]

OBR 2.00

A STRIKE is a legal pitch when so called by the umpire, which:
a) Is struck at by the batter and is missed;

See anything there that says it has to be a hittable pitch?


Was it a pitch?
Did the batter strike at it?

You have a strike.

[blueskysblue]

Could this be considered making a "travesty of the game"? That would change the whole enchilada!

[jicecone]

Originally posted by Shmuelg
This was actually in a men's fastpitch, although this works with baseball as well. That's why I am asking it here.

Count is 1 and 2, no outs, no one on base.

Pitcher throws a helium-ball (very very high), impossible to hit or catch, and it goes to the backstop. Batter, being shrewd, swings when he sees this. He didn't "aim" at the ball, it was obvious that he was swinging to get the "dropped third strike" situation. He then runs to first, and gets there safely. PU (I was FU) says it's a ball, and calls the batter back. Batter doesn't like this, and says he swung. Defense does NOT appeal the call, btw. I supported the PU, based on the understanding of the rules that a strike is to be called when the "batter strikes at the ball", and he didn't strike AT THE BALL. That's why it's called strike, Maude.

OK, what do you guys say to this? Good call? Bad call?

Shmuel

I think you had a PU that had decided he was going to call the game according to his rules. They truly give the rest of the officials a bad name.

[jxt127]

I seem to recall an argument put forth by Pete Booth last year in regards to a batter swinging at a pitch on the intentional walk. His advice at the ages that shave was this is still a ball more in the interests of game management i.e. call it a ball as there was no intent to hit the pitch and we don't want the next pitch to this batter to be in his ear. Sorry if I misremembered the post M. Booth

Perhaps we might getting into similar territory here.

[Shmuelg]

Rich,

It was a pitch, but it was clear that in our opinion (and the ump's opinion is the only one that counts) the batter was not even CLOSE to trying to strike at the ball. He wasn't confused and thought the ball was in the strike zone, or anything like that.

Think about it like this: Pitcher pitches. The batter is in the box, and is kinda like swinging the bat back and forth in a pendulum fashion, the way many do when waiting for a pitch. He lets another pendulum go while the pitch is coming in, obviously not trying to hit the ball, but just as a habit. Kind of scratching your head, or something like that. Should you call a strike at this as well?

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by Shmuelg
Rich,

It was a pitch, but it was clear that in our opinion (and the ump's opinion is the only one that counts) the batter was not even CLOSE to trying to strike at the ball. He wasn't confused and thought the ball was in the strike zone, or anything like that.

Think about it like this: Pitcher pitches. The batter is in the box, and is kinda like swinging the bat back and forth in a pendulum fashion, the way many do when waiting for a pitch. He lets another pendulum go while the pitch is coming in, obviously not trying to hit the ball, but just as a habit. Kind of scratching your head, or something like that. Should you call a strike at this as well?

Hey management, we need a SOFTBALL board here!
We here on the BASEBALL board don't get batters penduluming while a 90+ mph pitch is coming in. For us, if the batter pendulums with a ball coming in that fast, it's a strike!
:>)

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by blueskysblue
Could this be considered making a "travesty of the game"? That would change the whole enchilada!

What rule is this?

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
See anything there that says it has to be a hittable pitch?


Was it a pitch?
Did the batter strike at it?

You have a strike.

A STRIKEis a legal pitch when so called by the umpire, which
(a) Is struck at by the batter and is missed;

Read that again. It says "struck at...and is missed." Now we all agree that he missed it. So let's just look at struck at.

Now did this batter attempt to strike the ball with his bat? The rule does not say "it is a strke when the batter swings and misses." The rule says "struck at", therefore he would have to attempt to hit the ball.

[LMan]

Its a strike. Anything else rewards the defense for a terrible pitch (assuming it was not intentional). And its the rule.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by LMan
Its a strike. Anything else rewards the defense for a terrible pitch (assuming it was not intentional). And its the rule.

No it rewards the offense. The batter advanced to first base because the third strike was uncaught.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Shmuelg
It was a pitch, but it was clear that in our opinion (and the ump's opinion is the only one that counts) the batter was not even CLOSE to trying to strike at the ball. He wasn't confused and thought the ball was in the strike zone, or anything like that.

Think about it like this: Pitcher pitches. The batter is in the box, and is kinda like swinging the bat back and forth in a pendulum fashion, the way many do when waiting for a pitch. He lets another pendulum go while the pitch is coming in, obviously not trying to hit the ball, but just as a habit. Kind of scratching your head, or something like that. Should you call a strike at this as well?

I agree, you have to attempt to strike the ball. Think about if there is a pitch up at the batter's head. He falls to the ground and twists so that his arms push the bat across the plate while he is falling. Did he swing the bat? Yes he did. But is it a strike? No, because he did not attempt to strike the ball.