Is ball "dead" after 3 outs... Situation

[PeteBooth]

I think we are trying to complicate things.

First I believe everyone (even Grandma) knows that if B1 is put out before he reaches first base safely - NO RUN CAN SCORE - It doesn't matter what else happened. So the defenses job if they do not want any runs to score is to try and make certain that B1 doesn't reach first safely.

Also a Team only gets three outs - PERIOD.

Now the situation described above r2,r3 - 2 outs - slow roller to F6 - who then makes a play on r2 at third - If r3 scores before r2 is put out - run counts - as by definition this is a Time Play - B1 can stand at the plate all day if he wants to - the run still counts because the defense chose to play on r2 as opposed to B1.

If it's a game tying or winning situation, the fielder has to be aware of this.

The way I view an appeal play is in effect like a Time Warp (for you Trekies). During live action the defense can NEVER ASSUME (at least that's what I was taught), that an umpire saw what you saw. When there are multiple runners on base a fielder doesn't have the time to check with Blue and then make a subsequent play.

Therefore, when the dust settles and a Team appeals - we go back in Time to see if the appeal (if upheld) cancels any run that scored. For all practical purposes no-one is going to appeal unless it effects the score.

Therefore, an appeal effects the score only - even though the wording is "advantageous 4th out" it is not in effect a 4th out but merely an appeal to cancel a run. If you had a 4th out then the batting order would change.

IMO OBR should have a separate section on Appeals - Clear and concise wording with examples given similiar to a textbook if you will.

Pete Booth